Julian: All right, everyone. Thank you for joining the podcast today, we have Simon Jones, CEO and founder of Voltz Labs. The Voltz protocol is creating an interest rate, swap exchange in decentralized finance, Simon. Thank you so much for joining the podcast. I'm really excited to dive deep into your background, what Voltz is doing and get to know a little bit more about yourself in, in the market.

Julian: So just to jump right on in, what were you doing before you started. 

Simon: Yeah. I mean, first of all, just to say, obviously super excited to be here and, , excited to be talking to you, , in terms of my background. So this is actually now my third financial technology startup., so the first two were kind of more traditional web two businesses, , with a very heavy focus on AI.

Simon: , and then obviously this is web three, , , but across all of those, , and actually both as a founder and as an I. I've now been involved in over a billion dollars of value creation, but actually what's a lot more important to me, , is that, , across all three of those, there's been a very consistent theme, which is that they are all very, very focused on building financial infrastructure.

Simon: That helps to democratize access to financial services mm-hmm and in doing so kind of what has been happening and what we hope continues to happen is that we ultimately change the economic opportunities for billions of people around the world. And that's pretty exciting. Yeah. Yeah. 

Julian: And when you talk about, , democratizing finance and, and access to it is what what's looting that way.

Julian: Is it the technology? Is it the companies and, and how they're structuring the way that finance and, and borrowing and lending is happening? , is it something else. 

Simon: Yeah, it's a great question. And, and actually for me personally, that's varied across the different businesses. , so if I think about my most recent business as an example, , what we're doing there is we were that we, we fully automated, , effectively the thought processes of a human financial advisor.

Simon: Yeah. And in doing so what we were doing is we're creating this kind of piece of software that yeah. , replicated human financial, , and therefore democratized access to that service. Yeah. But what we're doing in, , with vaults and, and with web three more broadly is actually, , kind of a massive step change beyond that.

Simon: It's about mm-hmm, completely transforming the way in which financial services work all across the world. , and just to give you a statistic that always really surprises. There's 25% of world's population. They still don't even have a bank account. Right. They haven't got any way of storing money that in anything other than a physical means.

Simon: Yeah. I mean, it's completely crazy. And, , like as someone who's been in the financial services sector now for a while, like DeFi and decentralized finance, , it is the first kind of meaningful way. Of not only providing these people with kind of basic access to financial services, mm-hmm , but actually providing every single person wherever they are in the world with the same access to the same financial services stack and that in doing so kind of creates this new world where everybody's got equal opportunity in life.

Simon: And that's pretty exciting. 

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. So in terms of, first of all, that's a crazy statistic and, and, , it definitely shows, I know some family members of mine still. You know, money in their mattress, , in different parts of the, the house. , but I tell them, you know, a dollar today is not worth the dollar tomorrow.

Julian: , but in, in regards to giving access, like where, where is that access coming from? How, how do you, , how do you, , forecast that access being granted to more people? Is it through their cellular device? Is it through the web? Is it through, you know, where's the step? Cause sometimes I hear that the step is, you know, giving people access to the.

Julian: And then they get access to all these services. Do those coincide, or how do you view in terms of like increasing access to people who don't currently have some, 

Simon: yeah, I think it's a really interesting question. And actually, , one of the things that I think will happen kind of going forward and we're already starting to see, this is we'll see kind of more traditional FinTech web two business.

Simon: Actually interacting with DeFi and in doing so, , I kind of view FinTech as front end, disruption of your financial stack and DeFi is backend disruption. And in doing so when these two kind of source of innovation, so to speak, start, start interacting with each other more. Yeah. It will completely disintermediate traditional finance, , and, and create this new kind of world of financial services.

Simon: Mm-hmm , which is actually accessible to everybody. , and, and coming back to your accessibility point, kind of the reason why I think that's important is, , if we think about like some of the UX that exists in web three, like it is a little bit challenging. It's all stuff which is solvable, but it's still also stuff, which is.

Simon: A little bit challenging. And at the end of the day, there's a lot of people around the world where like, they don't want a meta mask extension. They don't have to bounce around lots of different. Yeah. They just wanna interact with their financial services through that phone. And like what FinTech has been very good at is being very good at disrupting that front end.

Simon: So now we've got backend disruption as an opportunity for that to really change. 

Julian: Yeah. What, in, in, in regards to the inspiration behind, , Vos, what, what kind of inspired you to move in the direction of, of web three? Obviously the world's moving into the direction of web three, but I think the adaptation in a lot of ways is still, I don't wanna say behind, but it's still in its infancy.

Julian: , what is, what inspired you to move in that direction? . 

Simon: Yeah, it's funny. Cuz there's actually two parts to that question. There's the first part, which is mm-hmm like why on earth did I end up in financial services in the first place? Cause I can promise you that was, that was not the original plan. Yeah.

Simon: , and then the second is like actually having gone and done two businesses, like why, why did I end up. Kind of going and doing bolts. , so to answer the first, first, I, I actually need to take you all the way back to 2009. , I was, , kind of obviously quite a young man back then. I was playing rugby in Australia.

Simon: , the year before I went to uni. So I'd actually got into uni for architecture. Mm-hmm , And as a pretty young man, like obviously didn't have much money mm-hmm , and as going around, like kind of, I remember this so vividly going like down the high street, going from like a sports center to coffee shop, to a restaurant, trying to find a job and I just couldn't get a job anywhere.

Simon: And, that's yeah. Is, is this kind of like crazy situation? And then there's this one moment, which kind of, I really remember where, , you know, there's like massive bags of pasta. You can buy for like a dollar. Yeah. Like I was, I remember sitting there at home, like eating this, like $1 pastor where all of my friends, all of my friends had gone to Melbourne, , for the weekend.

Simon: And I remember just thinking like, yeah, I need to do something about this. Like I need to, I need to understand what's going on here. And actually when I started looking into it, right, like clearly is a global financial crisis as completely naive. Right? Sure, sure. Like, no, no one was hiring it. Wasn't just me.

Simon: There was effect. Millions of people around the world. There's like millions of people being made unemployed people's financial lives are being worse off. , sure. , you know, banks were BA being bailed out by the government. This is kind of like huge kind of like financial event. , and I remember just thinking like, like, I want to try and do something about, I need to learn more and then need to go and do something about this, right?

Simon: Yeah. When I was in Australia, I, I then switched from, , , from architecture to economics and then coming out the other side, obviously went on to set up kind of multiple businesses. , but then specifically in terms of like folds. So I had been hanging around, , like the crypto space since I was at. I remember all the way back in 2012, like buying Bitcoin with my friends, like fun and cool.

Simon: And there's this new technology you could play around with. , but for me, it was always about the technology and, and the technology was not at a point where in my mind it could have like meaningful disruption at the point that I finished uni, which is why went and did these other two businesses. But then coming into the back of last year, it was, it was very clear in my mind that the technology was now getting to the.

Simon: That is ready for mass market adoption. Mm-hmm , and that's where I basically agreed to leave the last business, which is now doing really well. It's scaling internationally, which is obviously great to see. , , but then I wanted to go all into this space as a founder and I, , basically went out, met my co-founder and he, and I then set out to build what we describe as the next zero to one in.

Simon: , that moves the whole space forwards, and that is false. And I can obviously talk to what it is that 

Julian: we. Yeah, yeah, please do. And well, a couple points is, , before, before you dive into it, because I find it so fascinating when people are going through like global events and how they kind of think through, , those events to, to put themselves in either a position of advantage or at least understand what's going on.

Julian: And I think a lot of, , people struggle with that because, you know, you focus on, it's kind, kind of like the, the psychological. , it structure or thought like Maslow's hierarchy, right? It's, it's really just like when you have only the capacity to think about, , you know, your food and, and, and your, your living situation.

Julian: It's hard to kind of think above that. And, and think in terms of ways you can, you know, broader, , your professional experience or just like experience overall, you know, knowledge and things along that nature. , where did you go to for that information? Where were you, where were you like. I'm I'm eating this $1 bag and then now I have to, I have to go and, and understand the market so I can put myself in a place for advantage.

Julian: Where did you go for that information? What kind of outside of, you know, the struggle of getting a job, what was triggering that event to move forward? And then what did you learn? Like what were, what were some of the key learnings that you had to put yourself in a position where you felt like, okay, I'm, I'm more in command of my future and now I need to learn things that are gonna set me up long term.

Simon: Yeah, no, it's a really good question. And like you are, you're making me go kind of a really long way back in terms of my life. , but, but, but I, the thing is, it is great. Cause I actually remember it so vividly cause it had like such a material impact on, on me. Yeah. , but I just remember basically spending a lot of time, , kind of reading news online.

Simon: I mean the middle of the global financial crisis, there's like every bit of news that you could read was like in some way related to what was going on in the. , and that's where I was kind of like studying to kind of recognize just how material and event it was, how many millions of people were being affected.

Simon: , kind of even just small things. Like when I left Australia, like I kind of accumulated these clothes, , which I couldn't take back with me. And I remember there's these homeless people on the street that you'd see kind of actually growing in size. There's more and more homeless people. I remember, I remember going and giving them like this bag of clothes that I wasn't gonna go take home with.

Simon: And you, you started to recognize just how like big an event it was and how important it was to actually come out the other side, trying to do something about it. Yeah. , and then obviously university for me was a big thing, like going and studying economics. It, for me personally, that kind of massively improved my understanding of the way that financial services works around the world.

Simon: Yeah. , but yeah, like alongside that, I do a lot of reading. I listen to a lot of audio books, , listen to podcasts, of course, any, any sorts of information that can like help you recognize the other problems. I think that other people are facing, , and kind of new and interesting technologies that can help address that.

Simon: Like personally, I find that pretty interesting. 

Julian: yeah, man, it it's, it's, it's so important. I think, , as going through university myself and, and now, you know, within the founder space and trying to gather more information, it's just like, there's, there's an overall information deficit, depending on where you come in your background.

Julian: But as soon as you can kind of go beyond that and, and seek out the information and the right information, we talked about it before. For the podcast, , where it's like you have, then the opportunity to, to learn more and take that knowledge and apply it to real life. Because I think one thing university does is structure a way of learning a thought process and how you, , maybe approach information.

Julian: But outside of that, a step beyond that is. Finding the right information that actually applies to the day to day life. And I think that's kind of, , that's what helps you kind of long term. , but in regards to vol, excuse me, , tell, tell us a little bit about that, you know, what you're working on, what the space, , what space that's disrupting and, , a little bit more about the technology behind it.

Simon: Yeah, sure. So when art is my co-founder, when he and I like stepped into this. , like I was saying, we really wanted to find like zero one innovation that moved the whole sector forwards and within kind of web three specifically, there's, there's like a very clear problem that needed to be solved. , which is that the, , as a, as a byproduct of the technology, the ecosystem is structurally variable.

Simon: , and just to explain that very briefly. So if you go all the way to the bottom of your kind of tech stack that exists in web three mm-hmm , , you've got, , kind of the way in which blocks have either mind or validated on a block by block basis. Sure. And, , people pay what's described as gas fees or people who aren't familiar with it, it's basically to pay feeds or have reminder or a validator, , to kind of get your transaction mind within a given.

Simon: now supply and demand dynamics basically mean that there is kind of more demand to get your block or transaction mind within one block relative to another. , and that means that people are willing to pay a kind of different fees, right. On a block by block basis. , so because there are different fees being played on blocked by bot places there's, , kind of different kind of yields that are being generated over by minors or validated.

Simon: And these yields are varying right block by block. They change. So right at the bottom of your stack, you have like coming outta the base of the ecosystem. You have these variable rates of return and what you then have on top of that is you obviously have a bunch of different layers. , but the vast majority of those layers kind of suffer from this same dynamic that the, the whole ecosystem itself is structurally variable.

Simon: , and clearly that's fine for a proportion of the. , you know, and DeFi is kind of probably quite well known as being like this kind of crazy kind of, , kind of volatile and variable like ecosystem, but we don't want that to be the case. We want DeFi to become the financial system for the whole of the world mm-hmm , and in doing so, what that means is it means we need to find a way.

Simon: To help the ecosystem transition from something that is structurally variable, to something that can be structurally stable for people that want it. And at its most macro level, that is what an interest rate swap enables. It enables you to transition from something that's variable to something that's stable.

Simon: , and there's a whole bunch of like research. We actually spent six months of research figuring out how on earth you build an interest rate swap in a world where the constraints are fundamentally different to traditional finance. Right. , , but like off the back of all of that research that led to the innovation of vaults and, and, , yeah, at the moment we are we're growing and, and, you know, looking to frankly, help, help DeFi evolve.

Simon: Such that DeFi can become the financial system for the whole of the. . 

Julian: Yeah, that's so fascinating. , in terms of like, you know, using, , or I guess, you know, in terms of its evolution, from something that's extremely variable in volatile. Tell me a little bit about the volatility and, and the variability.

Julian: What, what causes that. And then my second question, , is, you know, once you've figured out the way to create more of a fixed market, What, what led you to creating that? What, what kind of technologies behind that, or what kind of, , you thought processes behind that? Because I think, you know, it's like, you know, chasing a chicken, you know, at some point you gotta, you have to make sure that it's, , you know, not moving or it's gonna be in a fixed position, but I'm just curious on one, what causes the variability and then two, how do you fix that variability?

Julian: So people can actually do these swaps without, , this extremely volatile, you know, interest rate, , increase in. . 

Simon: Yeah. So the, the, the variability is, I mean, ultimately if you just massively zoom out, it's driven off supply demand dynamics. , so like this, this kind of, if you think about like block by block, as an example, people there's different demand to get your block mind in one block relative to the other.

Simon: And that means you're prepared to pay more in that block than the. Which means that there's these variable rates coming out the base of the ecosystem. Right. , and then the volatility really is like, in many ways it's been a function of just the amount of innovation that's been taking place in the space.

Simon: Yeah. Yeah. , you know, crypto is inherently more volatile anyway. , as an asset class, , , but there's been so much like innovation, that's been, , kind of occurring within the kind of DeFi ecosystem, , and all of these like innovations and new protocols end up kind of, , looking to decentralize and therefore shooting tokens in some shape or form.

Simon: So, so you are layering on like to innovation, lots and lots of, , kind of like basically financial kind of redistribution of wealth. Right. And that is driving immense volatility. , mm-hmm , but kind of, if you think about that from the kind of variability and volatility side, like when we're then thinking about faults, , , just to give an insight into like why the constraints are fundamentally different.

Simon: Yeah. If you think about an interest rate swap in traditional finance, , that's a transaction. I mean, if I massively simplify it, it's a transaction between two people where you and I enter into an agreement. , where I might trade one variable rate with you and you might sell me a fixed rate. Mm-hmm , and what that means is that I actually have what's described as counterparty risk mm-hmm , because you.

Simon: May end up bankrupt and therefore, or, or kind of insolvent or, or whatever you may just disappear. Mm-hmm , at which point actually I've entered into this swap, but the person on the other side isn't around anymore to be good for sure. Good for their side of the deal. , so what you end up with in traditional finances, you end up with this kind of world of legal infrastructure that exists, , that it only exists to tell you what to do when something goes.

Simon: Yeah. And what you have in web three is like, I don't know who the counterparty is, so I, I can't have counterparty risk. , and what that means is that you have to, , build a mechanism or come up with a mechanism design that is created in a manner that, , cannot. right. So unlike traditional finance, where you have this legal infrastructure exists saying like, I really hope you don't fail, but if you do, this is what we're gonna do, right.

Simon: In web three, you actually have to come up with a mechanism design that's designed so that it cannot fail in the first place. , and that is ultimately one of the big, big innovations that we can kind of figured out, , , which gets very deep and technical very quickly, which I can show that's helpful.

Simon: , but, but, but like that is at its core, right? That's the big difference. , , from like a innovation perspective. Yeah. Relative to the way that this works in traditional finance. 

Julian: Yeah. Yeah, no. And, , when I was looking up vaults, , there was this, there's this concept that, that seems as though you, you created, which just called synthetic interest rates, is that, is that part of the mechanism that you've built.

Simon: Yeah, so vaults as a like primitive is, , deliberately architected in a way that makes it as generalizable, , as possible. And it also is designed in a way where the, the markets themselves are actually synthetic mm-hmm. what that means is it means that so long as there is a, , kind of data feed coming into the kind of ecosystem of, of.

Simon: , , for a rate of return, it means that you can create a market on top of that. , so kind of just, just to provide that as an example, , there are kind of some ways of creating great markets and DeFi today that are dependent on like having an asset and perhaps splitting that asset. , , so there's, there's always like some form of asset that exists in order to create that market.

Simon: Whereas with the markets that exist on T. There, there is no asset that's required to create the market. All that there needs to be is effectively a data feed coming into the ecosystem and the markets can exist. And, and the significance of that is that, , not only does it mean that kind of all sorts of different markets can be created, , , you can actually kind of bring off chain data on chain and creates a market for traditional financial rates, for example.

Simon: , but it also means that the, the, the kind of model itself is considerably more scalable. , than anything else that kind of exists in the ecosystem. 

Julian: Yeah. That's incredible. Tell, tell me a little bit about the traction you're you're seeing now that, you know, vs being adopted by different, , protocols and, and tokens.

Julian: What you know, where is the company heading to. . 

Simon: Yeah, so we launched on the 1st of June. , so it was about three months ago now. Yeah. which actually also coincided, , with a, yeah. Thank you. It coincided with a massive market crash, , for anybody that's familiar with, that goes on in the crypto space. Yeah.

Simon: , but, but, but honestly, that didn't impact us kind of really at all. And we've now grown to. , these numbers don't really mean anything without context, but I'll give you them anyway. So you're going to 150 million of notional liquidity and around 50 million of notional traded. And what that means is it is it means that we are now, , all fault as a protocol is now the, the most liquid and the most traded interest rate swap exchange in the whole of.

Simon: that's incredible, 

Julian: man. That's incredible. What, what risks are outside of, you know, being the market, being so volatile as, as, as you mean, you know, in terms of like the early adoption, the innovation that's happening outside of that, what are some risks that your company faces, you know, as, as you continue to grow scale and improve your technology?

Simon: Yeah. So there's the way that we really think about it actually is that there's like two types of risks. Mm-hmm, there's risks that are outside of our control. And then there's risks that are inside of our. Mm-hmm , and I guess one of the big ones just to highlight it, that's outside of our control is, is ultimately the regulatory environment.

Simon: , yeah. Yeah. , and, and actually the us in particular. Arguably been like one of the most draconian kind of environments for kind of crypto and DeFi historically. But, but what's, what's actually really nice is, and you can can see this in the kind of narratives coming out as politicians, both in the us and actually in the UK is that is quite clearly changing.

Simon: Right. And, , people are starting to recognize like the benefits of decentralized financial infrastructure and what that can mean to the. Right, so that that's, that's changing and that's great to see, and we want to continue to see that, , kind of evolve such that we can build a financial system that, , yeah.

Simon: You know, helps these 25% of the world's population have a bank account. Like that's gonna be an amazing thing to see. , yeah. Yeah. , but, but, but then alongside that, like in terms of the risks, that insight, our control what's, what's actually kind of really in many ways, actually quite exciting about web throughs and ecosystem is, is everything is open source.

Simon: , like anybody can just come in and fork your code base and create a competitor with, with like zero effort. , so, so, so you, as a, as a, as a team and as a community, you've gotta be moving at a phenomenal pace. Mm-hmm , , , to always remain like one step ahead of whoever is coming in and just forking your code base.

Simon: , yeah. And it's actually, one of the other benefits of, of, of DeFi is because it is open source and because it's accessible to everything in the world, right. It actually becomes a more innovative environment, , relative to kind of traditional finance that's closed source. It's unaccessible. Like there's only smart proportion of the world that actually understand the way in which these things work.

Simon: Like you open that up to the whole world and the innovation that you kind of start. Kind of deliver right as an open source ecosystem. Yeah. It's just orders of magnitude kind of more. 

Julian: Yeah, no. I was talking to another founder who started a different type of asset glass kind of exchange in terms of, you know, borrowing against NFTs.

Julian: And one thing we discussed was it's incredible how the nature of blockchain and a lot of these protocols being that they're open source. is that the users and, and those who are, you know, building around a blockchain can have a say in where the direction of these protocols go and where the technology goes.

Julian: And it kind of brings it back down to the, the user. , because I feel as though with, with products and, and as they grow and scale, it tends to lose some kind of insight into their, into their user base and customer base because, you know, they're making decisions on a extremely high. Versus when they began in conception, it was on the ground level.

Julian: And, but with, with the nature of a lot of these, , with crypto and blockchain in general is the fact that you can actually have a say in, in the way these tech, the technology being built and growing, , and add to its, its, , efficacy and, and, , the ability for that product to grow and become, you know, better and, and, , you know, an increase in its ability, accessibility and all that, you know?

Simon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I completely agree. I mean, it's, it is an E. That has the user at the center. Right. And that is, , fundamentally different to the way in which traditional finance works, where it has the elite individuals like control 

Julian: doesn't 

Simon: know source that they're at the center. Right. And I think putting the user at the center and giving the user control, it just completely changes the way in which this world will.

Simon: Yeah. 

Julian: Yeah. I think you touched on it already, but if, if you can, you know, summarize it is what, what is the long term vision for Voltz? 

Simon: Yeah, so we ultimately exist as a, as a like volt. So we've got Voltz protocol, and you got Voltz Labs, which is, , like a centralized team and we create permission software.

Simon: Yeah. , , but like as a, as a team and actually as a community around the protocol, like we ultimately exist to try and democratize access to financial service. Yeah, such that we can change the lives of billions of people. , so that's kind of like in many ways, our, our north star and that's kind of why we exist and, and, you know, we'll always be focused on trying to deliver that.

Simon: , but in terms of actually going about that practically, like you gotta kind of break that down into some kind of material milestones. Yeah. Yeah. And the, the, the first, which like, is, is on the horizon for us. And this is already starting to take. Is that we want to be, , kind of like the rates market for the metaverse.

Simon: Yeah. , , and you know, this is like already, in many ways, the case we are the most liquid and most traded and stretched of exchange in DeFi. , but we want keep growing that and, and, , kind of, kind of grow the ecosystem around the protocol, but then after that, the next step is, , there's an entity it's actually in London, as you can tell I'm in London.

Simon: , or at least you can tell, you can tell I'm British at the very, yeah. , but there's an entity in London called London clearinghouse. Mm-hmm , , it's responsible for about 90% of the world's interest rate swap clearing. Yeah. , and it is a legacy institution using legacy technology operating in a way that is like, you know, exactly the way in which traditional finance works.

Simon: It's okay. It's a close source. It's only accessible to a small number of people and what we want to happen within the next five years. Is, we want to have completely displaced that institution. We want it to no longer exist. We want all of that trading to be going through vault as a primitive, , which is like a fundamentally different primitive where it is open source.

Simon: It's accessible, it's provides equitable access to everybody. , and in doing so we see that as like a material step on the long term plan for ultimately kind of creating financial. . 

Julian: Yeah, no, I love that. And, and, , you know, in, in terms of just like the words you use opaque, I, I love that because you're exactly right.

Julian: There's you know, that they, we use this word transparency, I think a lot within you. Software and especially within DeFi and, and dabs and, and the whole infrastructure. But I think, you know, what you mentioned kind of really resonated with me was that it, it is currently OPIC in terms of accessibility and, and how, you know, things are functioning and how the markets are changing.

Julian: , but putting the user at the center, like you mentioned, has this, you know, natural ability to make it transparent and create this yeah. Ecosystem where you can, you can have that. So, , yeah, really excited to, to see where it goes, man, and, and where, , and hopefully the displacement happens, you know, sooner rather than later.

Julian: , yeah, 

Simon: you're doing like a couple of years rather than five years. 

Julian: yeah. I know, I know. I always say it takes about five years to do something successfully because the first two are to learn, you know, identify. And, and grow as within your own space. The next two years is to adopt it and be extremely, , bullish with where you're, where you're headed to.

Julian: And then the last years is where you reap the awards, you know, and that's about a five year, time period in my mind. , but I always like to ask my guests, you know, just for, for my own research purposes, as well as to, you know, broaden everyone's. , what books and, and people influenced you the most, you mentioned you go on audio books, you're on podcasts, you're reading.

Julian: , but what what's been super influential to you? 

Simon: Yeah. Well, I think beyond like Sathi, which obviously no, no one knows. Yeah. He, she is, , , beyond. Yeah. They like whoever beyond Sathi beyond fatal actually as well, two. I kind of groups or in instance of person, , mm-hmm, there's just, you know, in many ways created technology that will fundamentally change the way the world works.

Simon: Like beyond them, actually, one that really, I look back on at kind of when I listen to it's coming out of university, , is the lean startup by Eric Rose. , yeah. , and like, I I'm sure that most people kind of listening to. , I've read it. And if they haven't, they've at least heard of it. But if you, if you have not read that, I feel like it is an absolute must.

Simon: If you are looking to build any form of like software business, that's looking to scale rapidly and change the world. 

Julian: I love that. I love that. Well, that's definitely now on the reading list. , yeah. Well, thank you so much, Simon. I really appreciate you. You going down and, and breaking down, not only your experience and you know, the conception of Voltz, but where you're headed to and, and the mission, , which I think is extremely important as other companies are, you know, evolving.

Julian: , and we can all kind of cooperate in a way that that enables each other. To be successful. So, , last, last little bit, as I always like to ask my guests, where can we find you? Where can we support you? Where can we, you know, where can we retweet your stuff? , where, where can we find your information and support Volt's mission?

Simon: Yeah. So, , Voltz, if you go to voltz.xyz, , that's the website. And from there you can join our discord. We've got a pretty active community. I think it's hitting like over 10,000 now. , , and then alongside that you can find links to our Twitter. , and then me personally, I'm pretty active on Twitter.

Simon: , so you can always, you can always find me there. 

Simon: Love it, man. Well, thank you so much for joining. I know the time difference was a little bit of a challenge, but always excited to, to talk to new guests and founders who are doing exceptional things. So thank you again for joining the show. 

Simon: No, it's been awesome to be here.

Simon: It's , I've really enjoyed it. 

Julian: Awesome, man.