October 5, 2022

Shameer Sachdev, Founder of Growth Gorilla

After moving on from his career with top brands such as Barclays Wealth and Alexander David, Growth Gorilla’s Founder and Managing Director, Shameer Sachdev, struck out on his own and built the fintech growth marketing agency, Growth Gorilla. The agency focuses exclusively on catalyzing growth for courageous fintech.

Now Shameer is on a mission to share expertise from all corners of the fintech industry and provide The FML Podcast’s listeners with unique and valuable insights that can help deliver real results.

Julian: Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining the behind company lines podcast. Today, we have Shameer sat dev founder MD of growth, gorilla growth. Gorilla helps Fintech's catalyze growth. Shameer it's so nice to have you on the podcast. I'm really excited about learning, not only your experience with growth gorilla, but another project you're you're working on on the side.

That's similar to, to behind company lines that we'll dive into. But just to jump right on in, what were you doing before you started growth gorilla? 

Shameer: So first foremost, thank you very much for having me on. Yeah. Well, before I, before I started growth gorilla, I was marketing and sales director at a financial trading organization.

So probably your first generation of FinTech when having a mobile trading app was PR worthy. So yeah, I, I, I spent my career in financial service. Predominantly as a broker trading, the markets then eventually moved over to the financial trading side took over the marketing team and then helped grow that company quite considerably over course, about five years or so.

And then decided to set up my own agency [00:01:00] which is growth. 

Julian: Amazing. What was it like going through that transition? And what was the curiosity that led to you wanting to focus more attention, less on like the mechanics of trading the sales component that you know, was more partnership focus where, whereas a marketing, I feel like is a growth funnel and really focuses on, on, you know, the scaling a company to a different level based on not only its visibility, but its outreaches, all these different campaigns that influence.

Growth. What kind of, what was, what was the curiosity that led you to go in that direction? 

Shameer: So it was less outta curiosity and, and, and more about at a time I came in to take over the, the sales function and obviously, you know, you know, a salesperson is, is nothing really without leads effectively and, and traffic and, and people to talk to.

So we didn't really have, you know, a, a solid marketing infrastructure in. So I ended up sort of commandeering the marketing team. And then from that point I started off just doing sort of, you know, lead gen [00:02:00] activity. So really bottom of the funnel stuff, and then slowly making my way up to, you know, the more brand and, and awareness stuff.

But obviously at the time, I didn't know it as that. I mean, I, I, I didn't really know what CAC or CPA or, or any of that was really, to be honest. I was kind of just making up as I went along. 

Julian: Yeah. What was it in terms of like strategies you use at, at the bottom of, of the lead generation? What was that like?

Like, were there certain strategies that you thought worked? Well? I think a lot of different companies struggle with that lead generation portion. You know, they do a lot of AB testing. They you know, work through a lot of different experiments and campaigns. What 

Shameer: worked for you. So, I mean, bear in mind, this was sort of 10 years ago, so, you know, the.

the marketing landscape was very, very different. You didn't have, you know, there wasn't a TikTok and social, you know, social media advertising was, was not really that prevalent at all. It was fundamentally just Google search, you know, in terms of paid traffic that we were relying on. So I mean, in terms of the [00:03:00] bottom of the funnel stuff a lot of it was just focusing on high intent keywords from Google search.

And then coupling that we, we basically going to events putting up a stand and then trying to drive in traffic that way. And then doing other bits and pieces like webinars and partnership programs with other brands that has similar audiences. And, and trying to drive traffic and, and, and leads in that way.

Also at the time there was some, you know, native advertising was kind of on the rise as well at that point. So we invested some money into, into the native piece. So we were just writing content about, you know, seven stocks you've gotta buy right now. And then getting that on to like premium sites like Bloomberg and CNBC and Reuters and, and.

Sites like that. And then really then doing an exchange of, you know, someone downloads the, the report we get, we get their contact details and then, you know, we would give 'em a call. Yeah, but that was you. It was very, very sort of UN unsophisticated at that time. But, but it, it drove results and it, you know, [00:04:00] it, it pushed the numbers forward.

Julian: yeah. What was is that brand recognition piece? Is that mainly when you say you went native to build all this content out, ship it out to different publications. Is that part of like the building, the brand that, that you mentioned earlier? 

Shameer: no, no, not at all. Not at all. I mean, that, that's really just bottom of the, you know, that was, you know, completely bottom of the funnel stuff, basically just going after high intent traffic you know, those individuals who had an interest in investing wanted to trade were looking for ideas, you know, that that's that's, you know, the, the market that we were going after at that point.

But we were competing in a market space where we had an inferior product. A much, much lower budget. And so one of the issues that we were coming up against constantly was that even though our pricing was better, even though the product itself, wasn't great. Even though our pricing was was better, we were losing to, you know, we were losing customers to competitors.

So [00:05:00] what we needed to do was build out our. And create that sort of credence with the, you know, with our prospective audience, because the UK trading market for, for derivative products is actually quite small. You're talking about a universe, about a hundred thousand people. It it's, it's not that big at all.

Right? And these are retail investors. So this is not like a hundred thousand B TOB prospects you're going for, these are a hundred thousand retail traders that, that we wanna try and create some sort of you know, brand Or create some sort of trust with so what we needed to do from, from a brand perspective was we were getting a lot of the bottom of the funnel stuff, but then we were losing them through the through the signup journey, through the funnel.

And one of the reasons is, is that they just preferred going with a more well known partner. So we had to start doing some brand awareness activity at the top of the funnel to create, you know, create that, that trust from the outset. 

Julian: And what, what was the brand awareness. 

Shameer: So it was a real mixture at the time.

So it started off being a lot of so we were advertising, we do a lot of press advertising at the time [00:06:00] in really relevant publications. So in the UK, there's a paper called city am, goes out every morning. They've got about 125 at that time that about 125,000 readers people commun commuting even into London and then a very specific business section.

And finance and trading sections. So we advertising there. And then accompanying that we were in a couple of other magazines that traders tend to pick up and then also doing running TV activity on, on Bloomberg and CNBC at that point. So we were really just trying to be where our customers were.

It was all, you know, it was very, very unscientific, right? It was, you know, we know that a lot of proportion of our customer base lives in London or travels or works into. So we'll advertise there. We know a large proportion of our customer base watches Bloomberg, so we'll advertise there. And that was kinda like the beginnings of.

You know, the marketing activity that we were doing and it got a lot more sophisticated as kind of the years went by. And I, I gradually became more and more obsessed with marketing. Yeah. 

Julian: And what was the inspiration in, in growth gorilla and, and [00:07:00] wanting to go and, and focus on, on an agency that not, not just helps, you know, the current company that you were working at, but you know, A lot of different FinTech companies with their growth and with marketing, because I think, you know, even as a founder myself, it is, it is a very complex you think it's simple in terms of, you know, getting your brand out recognition, the campaigns you can run, but there's so many intricate things that you can do in parallel with others that help kind of create an overall net to, to, to bring in, you know, new clients, new partner what have you, but what was the inspiration behind growth gorilla?

And tell us a little bit about the traction that you're seeing now. 

Shameer: Yeah, so, so the inspiration behind growth gorilla, funnily enough, was having done and been in financial services by that point for the best part of 10 or 12 years, I thought, do you know what? I really, really enjoy the marketing bit. I wanna take a break from, from financial service.

So I set up an agency to say, Hey, I'm gonna do marketing, you know, and I can transfer my skills to any sector. And for about a year, I, I, I try to promote my [00:08:00] services to anything but financial services. And it was basically told you don't know enough about this sector go away. And then eventually you know, two, you know, FinTech at that point, this is about five years ago.

FinTech started becoming a bit of a buzzword and I just started getting a bit of, you know, I started getting a few recommendations, you know because you know, FinTech platforms are fundamentally, you know, they're all the same really, right. You've got a marketing website, a signup journey, and then you've got the backend platform.

And, you know, we're talking predominantly about sort of B2C retail SME focused on, in the B2B space. That is. Type of FinTech platforms. So, because I kind of knew about that funnel. I haven't done it for so long. I just started getting a few referrals saying, look, Peter schmear. He, he kind of deals with that sort of stuff.

And I went all right, fine. I'll I'll do financial services in FinTech. And then about a year or so later, a year or two, after that, we just, you know, just, just went right. We're just gonna do FinTech now going. Because one of the things I realized was is that FinTech organizations don't see themselves as [00:09:00] financial services.

They see themselves as FinTech as the next generation. So we just, you know, double down and, and focus on that sort of area. So that, that, that was kind the inspiration for growth career and kind how we made a decision to, to go to go into the FinTech space. 

Julian: Do you use a lot of the same strategies that you used before?

Shameer: I think a lot of the same principles, but not necessarily the same strategies cuz the, the landscape for marketing has changed quite quite a bit. So, you know, for, for the better as well. Right? So where before we had to cast a, a pretty wide net with, with a relatively large budget to get in front of our target customer, we wouldn't really need to do that now because, because of platforms like Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, to cetera, you know, we were able to sort of hone in on really specific.

And behavioral characteristics and then put our message in front of them. And it just makes it, you know, so much more, more actually easier in my opinion and, and a brand awareness piece, you can also still maintain and do that completely [00:10:00] online as well. Right. You don't need to necessarily now.

You know, go and run sort of advertising in, in press or, or, or necessarily on TV. In order to, to create that, you know, that trust with your audience because you know, individuals now, you know, buyers now as the platforms now don't need convincing or don't need as much convincing that they can conduct a transaction online.

Yeah. So they're quite happy. To, to purchase online. I think like the B2B space, they're saying now that decision makers are happy to make purchases of up to, you know, I read about sort of $50,000 online, completely self serve, you know, could you imagine five years ago trying to, you know, get some of the complete transaction for $50,000 online, it doesn't happen.

And, and the retail space is that, but, but on steroids. Right. So, yeah. Yeah, it seems really, really similar principles, but, but saying different strategies and different. Yeah. What, what are those principles? So I think the, the, I think for me, the, the, the two or three sort of key [00:11:00] principle principles even is first and foremost, being really, really clear on who your audience is.

Especially, and especially the, you know, the, the younger you are as a business, get even more specific, you know, to, I mean, to the point where like, you know, If you are, if you're fresh out the gates, arguably you should be able to name your first hundred customers in terms of who they're gonna be. You know, it should be that, that niche and that focused.

And as you grow, you can kind of broaden out cause obviously your budget increased. So be really, really focused on, on your audience. Be really clear on who they are. And then be really, really clear as to what message you're gonna communicate to them and what problem you're solving for them as well.

And don't overcrowd them with USPS. And try to sell them every part of your product in, in, in sort of, you know, on one ad or, or on one landing page or in, you know, in one, in one message, you know, you can break it up and you can really, really just focus on driving one message home. So they're kind like the, the sort of two key principles.

And then I think the third [00:12:00] one is in my personal opinion you know, pepper, your audience, you know, get as many impressions. As you possibly can on, you know, O over your target market. So you're, you're better off targeting a smaller audience with a really, really, you know, a small audience that, that, you know, wants your product with a really clear message and then just hammering them with advertising and getting as many touchpoint as you can with them.

You know, whether that's online, an event, a bit of PR, bit of sponsorship, you know, and, and stack your, your, your market. Cause the more trust points that you create, sorry, the more touch points you create, the more trust you'll end up creating as well. Yeah. And then probably the last principle is you know, create social proof, you know, give show your, your target customer that other people like them are using your product.

And, and they, and they they're happy with it. So just, just, you know, very broadly speaking. 

Julian: Yeah, no, it's, it's incredible to see how you, how you view it because it's very systematic. It, it is the way it's structured, it seems to compound on itself. [00:13:00] And I think, you know, from my experience and it's like, You have to put all that effort into a lot of different channels, but be very focused with it and you'll see the results coming in.

And they come in in ways. And so it's, it's super interesting to hear your perspective from it because you're actively working with companies every day. Tell us a little bit about the companies you're working with and what types of companies really can benefit from growth gorilla and, and what you do.

Shameer: Yeah. So obviously FinTech organizations. Yeah. That that's, that's, that's the sort of blindly obvious bit our Sierra that we focus in. We, we are not limited to geography, so we've got clients all the way as far, Singapore, all across Europe and across north America as well. Put though we focus on, we don't split it up by B2C and B2B, so we kind of say sort of retail and enterprise.

And what we mean by that is, is that. Today includes, you know, our area of focus is anyone in the B2C marketplace. And then in the SME space as well from a B2B perspective, I mean, with the wrong [00:14:00] agency for you, if, you know, if you're trying to target sort of large enterprise organizations, There there's better firms out there than than us that will help you.

But certainly where there's volume, we can get lots of volume of users in, we can create lots and lots of data points, and then we can really help scale the organization at that point. So that's kind of our, our, our sort of key area in, in terms of sort of funding speak. Once you've got your series a you know, give, give us a call that that's kind of where we step.

Or if you've got a very large Pree or, or seed or something like that. Yeah. But yeah, about a series eight mark is kind of where, where we kind of come in. Yeah. As 

Julian: an agency. I'm and, and, you know, I run an agency myself. It's always a question for me is like, how do you. You know, obviously doing good work is gonna lead to word of mouth and have your product spread and, and introduce you to more relationships.

But how do you position yourself as doing something unique when you don't have a particular say product? You know, you're not, you're not pushing the next say Robin hood application that does this specific thing [00:15:00] differently than the previous. I. As a service company, as an agency, how do you differentiate yourself, yourself or identify a unique way or unique process that you do to give yourself kind of a, a, a difference in the market that, that and something unique to certain companies?

What, how, how would you yeah, what, what would you do or, or how do you do that? 

Shameer: How, how do you do that? Yeah. So look, the first thing is we specialize in a really specific. Okay. Yeah. So by doing that immediately, you know, you, you are, you are straight away creating an area of focus. So, you know, you are, you know, there's that phrase, right?

The artist to, to take away, not add. Right. So I, you know, I was just stripping at everyone, you know, that that's not FinTech immediately. So by doing. Any, and by communicating that any FinTech organization is gonna go well, hold on a second. They only, you know, they only focus on the FinTech sector. Let's find out more about them.

You know, what, what, what, what's their secret source? You know, what's the, you know, what's their recipe [00:16:00] here. So it creates a focus on your brand straight away. Then after that really it is actually, you know, the agency space, certainly because we're dealing with such low volumes and numbers in terms of clients that we actually want.

We don't want 10,000 customers. We don't even want a thousand. truth. Be told we don't even want a hundred customers. You know, we don't need that. You know, there's some very, very large successful agencies out there that have 20 customers. And so with that in mind, it, it is all about creating relationships.

And becoming a, an expert in your, in your sector, right. And your area of focus. So when we talk to, to our prospects, we don't really talk about the, the intricacies of keyword research and you know you know, quality scores or landing pages and, you know, in your Google ad and stuff like that.

I mean that, that's not part of our pitch, right. Because. You know that as far as we are concerned, that's a given that, that quality that you know, that you'd get from any other agency, that's a given you're not buying us because we are [00:17:00] really, really good at running Google search ads. We obviously are, but you're buying us because not only are we good at Google search ads, we understand your sector as well.

And then we communicate to our target customer that we do understand their sector and arguably maybe we understand it more than they. And we're more aware of the marketplace and the landscape than they are. And it's just demonstrating that to them. So it's that, you know, that relationship piece yeah, and that's kind of the other, the, the other part of it, which is creating direct conversations with perspective companies that we would like to work with.

And it's a very, very slow process. Right. You know, you're gonna be very, very long term. About that, you know, we, we are already making inroads to some large organizations that are way too big for us right now. But that's fine because you know, we we'll land 'em in a couple of years and that's absolutely fine, but we start doing that now, you know, plant those seeds now, you know, you'll have a great Oak tree in a few years.

Yeah, 

Julian: what's I know you run just a little tangent here. I know you run a [00:18:00] podcast yourself and I'd love to learn what that podcast is focused and geared towards and how it kind of works with growth gorilla in helping maybe promote a certain message or, you know, how do they work together you know, with each other.

And what do you cover on that podcast? 

Shameer: you've so it's called the FML podcast. I, I should have worn my my merch for the generic company one. So it's called the FML podcast. It sounds for FinTech, marketers and leaders. You know, very, very simply we sit down and have conversations, you know, very similar to this with senior marketers and, and, and founders and leaders within the FinTech space.

And, and the relationship between you. Both growth carer and the FML podcast is really, really simple. You know, growth carer is, is, you know, what we do on, you know, that's our day job. The FML podcast for us is, is our kind of community engagement piece. And, and also it's a great learning piece as well.

Right? Yeah. So it it's, you know, for me personally, you know, being the host it is. In, you know, huge amount of fun to go and talk to other [00:19:00] marketers talk shop and then just, you know, discover, you know, what's working for them and what's not working for them. And, and, you know, we then, you know, can kind of turn that into a, you know, a knowledge, action, you know, an actionable knowledge piece that, yeah.

You know, my audience can listen to and it's gonna benefit them. Then, then, then so much the. yeah. How do 

Julian: you focus on, you know, the the structure of the podcast and maybe just podcasting in general for, for anyone who's running one, even this is obviously a selfless question, but any of my listeners, if they want to start a podcast or have one, how do you say make sure that you are communicating a certain particular message or getting the information out for your audience to, to really have them understand the message you're trying to get across.

For instance, you know, behind company lines, we like to focus on how companies build and, and what is involved in the building process and the experience about that, because there's a lot of different information and knowledge that you can learn throughout learning someone's journey where they are, where they were and, and where they're going to be.

But how do you kind of pinpoint your focus on your podcast [00:20:00] and, and podcasting in general being, being that you've done quite a few episodes, you know, you're an expert in marketing and worked with a lot of companies. I'm just curious to hear your advice on. . 

Shameer: Yeah. So I don't know, like I kind of, haven't broken it down into a formula, but I think, you know, I think it's picking the right guests first and foremost.

Because you want guests that have, you know, a story that they can tell. And I think by large, most people have a story that they can tell, but the story that you know, that they're gonna tell us, gonna be relevant to your audience and your podcast. And I think the other thing is, is, is just doing the groundwork on, on the guests and understanding, you know, their background, what they do, their companies.

And then what I personally try and do is you know, I try to structure our podcast as a bit of an intro, get a bit of background and kind of get them talking about, you know, now case growth and market. Get them talking about that. And then what I'll do is, is, you know, I'll then try and drill in on areas that they've seen success and try and get them to kind of break down their formula and break down their process.

So not quite marketing, but we recently had Annie [00:21:00] Bromberg from he started a new venture called eco, I think he's, I think it was at coin desk prior to this. And he was talking about how, like, you know, there was a, a crypto winter when he, you know, shortly after he launched. So they pivoted the company.

And, and, you know, I just drilled in on that and we had a great conversation around his blueprint for, for pivoting and launching new products quickly, which I thought. really, really relevant given the current sort of economic climate that we, you know, we're all concerned that we're on the verge of a recession here.

Yeah. So I thought that was great learning for, for, for our audience. So yeah, you know, when I kind of see something, I like the sound of, you know, or, sorry, hear something. I like the sound of I'll just, just drill in and try and get more information about it. And I think a lot of that stands to my own personal curiosity.

Yeah. 

Julian: No, that's amazing. Shifting back to growth gorilla, what are some of the biggest risks that you face? 

Shameer: Biggest risks. So one of the biggest risks that we face in fact talking about, you know, the, the, the sort of recession piece and kind of all of that going on. So we were dealing with a lot of early stage startups.

So one of the biggest risks for us and it kind of came true in the end was that we were a little bit too [00:22:00] overexposed with early stage startups. And obviously when a VC started slowing down and, and runway started tightening up that put us in a bit of a precarious position because. You know, our, our, you know, future is directly aligned with obviously, basically the funding that our clients get.

And if that dries up and they've gotta extend their runway, you know, you know, we, we can become a casualty of that in a few cases we did. But we kind of mitigated that risk and, and, and what we did was is that we re kind of reposition the company. And it is kind of something that we were planning on doing for quite some time.

And. We were sort of in the process of doing cause obviously a lot of our early stage companies have now become growth stage in series a and series B and series C companies. So we kind of had that critical mass of clients like that, but we kind of wanted to focus on more clients like that. So we kind of slowed down the messaging around the go to market stuff.

And we now focus a lot more about messaging around the growth. The market entry staff product launches for more established firms. So yeah, that, that was kinda like one of the biggest risks. The, the other risks that we face as well is obviously we are very, [00:23:00] very focused on hu you know, human capital you know, ultimately speaking, we are in the business of, of selling.

Well, we try not sell our time. We try and sell our expertise, but ultimately still links back to, to bums on seats and, you know, If we onboard too many clients in one go, we might become under-resourced. And so therefore we kind out to manage our time and to say, well, you know, is this customer valuable enough to, for us to spend time with and kind of be picky about who we work with.

And then also then just making sure that we, you know, deploying our resources really, really effectively and efficiently. Yeah. 

Julian: Yeah. What you know, if everything goes well with growth gorilla what's the long term vision for, for growth grower. 

Shameer: Yeah. So I was fan, you know, always, I like this question because you know, everybody's running for, for an exit.

And you know, I think like the, the, you know, everyone's have like a big exit. They wanna make a few million queer and, but then what, okay. They will start something new. I don't know, personally speaking when I kind of [00:24:00] started the company. I hadn't quite decided, and I read this Bruce Lee quote and it was something along the lines of, you know, when you are stuck in a room with your enemy, you know, you shouldn't be thinking, you know, shit, you know, I'm in a room with them, you know, it should be them thinking shit, I'm in a room with you.

And it kind of got me thinking, I thought, well, if everybody's gonna run around and, and, and exit I, I, I like to be the one buying So that that's kind of my intention to, to start at some point acquisitioning smaller agencies grow the business, you know, not, not just organically, but by acquisition.

And then rolling that up into a larger organization. Cuz if I'm, you know, truthfully told if I sell, you know, if I were to sell growth grid and I would, and I exit. What am I gonna do? you know, like, you know, I'm only gonna go start another, you know, another business or, or, you know, another venture.

And I like marketing. I like the FinTech space. And I like what I do, so I'll just carry on doing it. 

Julian: I love that. No, I, I love honestly, behind that answer and yeah, I mean that, that's a, that's a [00:25:00] very inspiring quote and I can see the, the direction there. We share similar philosophy in, in terms of not only growing organically, but then figuring out ways to, you know, continue the, the, the outreach and the, and the reach in terms of more customers, more client based what you can work on.

It's more fascinating to. More time into one, you know, one thing, one entity and, and see where that goes for me, at least for others it's different, but yeah, I definitely resonate with that. We're almost at time here and I always like to ask this question, not only for my selfish research, but for my audience as well.

What books or people have influenced you the most? 

Shameer: What books of people have influenced me the most? That's a really, really good question. Books and people,

you know, when your mind just goes blank well that's too. 

Julian: No, I mean, there's, there's like information overload. It's like, then, then the choice becomes like, alright, what did you say about me? 

Shameer: so, so I think people You know, I'm [00:26:00] a big fan Naval Ravikant I like his approach. And, and the way he thinks you know, definitely a big influence in the way I kind of approach life.

And think about, you know you know, how I deploy my, my energy and my resources. I think business-wise definitely Steve jobs, very interesting the way, you know, he kind of conduct himself bit nutty at times, but, you know, by, by and large bit a good influence. I think books, I mean, you know, endless with a number of books, I've read everything from kind of like Seth go to I mean, just, just, just so many, I mean, I've got a whole shelf back there of different books.

In fact, I can kind of tell you I've read biographies. I quite like reading, you know, biographies. So I've read, you know Richard Bransons, James Carnes, Peter Jones. A sugar on Swartz Neer. I find that just really, really interesting to, to learn about people's journeys because you know, there's so much that you can kind of mimic and, and take from the learnings that, that yeah.

They have already made a mistakes for. Right. So, yeah. So yeah, that, that kind of be my [00:27:00] answer. I love that a bit, bit of a, no that, oh, actually as well over here, I've got a, a poster for Michael. . Yeah. And I've got a poster for two bucks record, so they're the two big influences. So Michael Jordan reminds me to, to absolute, you know, if there's anyone who's gonna outwork anyone in the.

It was gonna be Michael Jordan. Yep. And the same goes to . Right? Both of them just outworked everyone in the entire industry. So in the respective industry. So there you go. They're 

Julian: on my wall. I love that. No. And there's a lot to learn from, from athletes and business and also artists as well. It's the, it's the time commitment.

It's the investments, the insights they gather it's the fore. Onto what they, what they feel in their, in their hearts is, is the right direction. Yeah, both two crazy inspirational individuals, as well as the others. You mentioned last bit I love to give the opportunity for some plugs, you know, where, where can we support growth gorilla?

Where can we find you obviously the FML podcast? But what, tell me your LinkedIns, tell me your Twitters, where can we support? [00:28:00] Where can we be a fan of growth gorilla? 

Shameer: Yeah, of course. So, I mean, you can just visit us on our website, gross gorilla dot code. Our handles on Twitter is just at growth gorilla.

And then you can find us on LinkedIn as well. So I think it's forward slash growth gorilla. So you can find us in all, all of those sorts of places. And then you can find me personally on, on LinkedIn as well. If you type in my name, I'm the only one called Shameer Sachdev. So, you know, there's, there's no one else I'm, I'm truly.

Julian: I love that. I love that you are definitely. Well, thank you so much, Shameer. I really appreciate you being on the podcast. Not only, you know, talking about your journey, but giving us some, some inspirational pieces of not only your knowledge, but also your, your, your experience, your insights. I hope a lot of people can gain a lot of this.

I'm excited to launch this episode. So again, thank you so much for being on the podcast. 

Shameer: Thank you very much for having me. 

Julian: Cheers.

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