Julian: Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining the behind company lines podcast. Today, we have Manuel Schoenfeld CEO, CEO, excuse me, of power X power X is one of the world's most comprehensive home energy and water saving solutions. Leading the way in combating climate change. Manuel, thank you so much for joining the show.

I'm really excited to learn more about yourself, your background. As we, as I mentioned before we jumped in here, especially your background is, is, is different than, than some of the previous guests I've had. So especially interested to learn more about you. And before we get started, I would love to know what were you doing before you started power X?

Manuel: I. Worked in three different fields. And by the way, I'm also super happy to be on this podcast with you Julian, so fantastic to be here. The three different fields I was working before first in consulting. So I worked for a company called McKinsey and company then in investment banking for example, for Morgan Stanley and then actually in quite several, quite many years in Humanitarian aid.

So I worked for the world bank a bit. I worked for [00:01:00] a non-profit organization in, in conflict countries like Somalia and, and others. So pretty diverse background. 

Julian: Yeah. What, what was the, how did the evolution start at at each, at each career staff? 

Manuel: Yeah, I, I actually started off in the nonprofit world, so I worked for I worked for this nonprofit and that, that was a really crazy time.

Like we virtually were, were based in Somalia at some points in time. And like one week I remember we were there and, and the war broke out between, well, Somalia Al Shaba and Kenya, and like, Our guides originally go away from the windows, go away from the windows, like turn off Chrome windows, like, like close to curtains.

And yeah, and we were, when we were driving around, we always had like bodyguards and, and during the convoy. So that, that was a pretty crazy time. And then the, the next step was in the investment banking real. And then [00:02:00] finally I ended up working for McKinsey company, which also led them to, to building power.

Julian: Yeah. So I was learning more about your experience at, at McKinsey and company. And you did a lot around you know, advising governments and private sector on energy solutions. How was the transition, how was, how was communicating and how was that environment? Cuz I don't, I don't know if a lot of us know about.

The dynamic of, you know, advising and also for something specific like, you know, climate solutions what was that experience like, you know, communicating different proposals, I'm sure. Solutions to problems. What was that experience like? 

Manuel: Let, let me pick out two project examples. So the first project, that's very interesting.

Was working for the ministry of immigration, if you will. And in that time there was like war in Syria with ISIS back then. So there was a, a huge wave of immigrants coming [00:03:00] to, to Europe and Europe and particularly Germany were not prepared. For such a wave, you know, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of refugees.

Yeah. So suddenly you had to like design policies, you had to think about, okay, what do you do when they come? Like, who has a right to stay for human humanitarian reasons and who does not how can you actually handle such, such a 10 X increase in refugees? And then also, will they be able to work here?

If not, where do you place them? So there were like so many logistical questions and the government didn't have the staff at this time to, to think about all these questions. So that was one of the first projects I, I worked on like thinking about the policies that would be needed to, to handle this influx.

And also once one's refugee stays in Germany or in Europe where they can stay and how they, how. Access to labor market. And the second project. Also, the last project I did for McKinsey some years later was [00:04:00] actually in, in the middle east. So we serve Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Oman and several countries in the middle east.

And. The, the company I was serving, put a lot of money, $1 billion on the line to make their processes greener over 10 years. Wow. I was so excited, you know, 1 billion, it's a lot of money and oil and gas in the middle east. They, they have a lot that that can be, you know, green find and, and made better in, in a climate, in a a more climate friendly way.

So I staffed my team. What could possibly go. Now fast forward, we nearly flunked this project because we could not find good solutions for this customer. And that, that, that, that I could not believe it, you know, experts in the field, a lot of money. A very willing customer and we cannot find good solutions to [00:05:00] greenify their processes.

Yeah. So that was virtually the point when I, when I said, you know, climate change is not only knocking outdoors, it's knocking doors down as we speak. And here I am being part of the problem because I sit here complain. We can't find good solutions and actually. I myself don't do anything about it. I don't change anything about this fact.

So I virtually decided at that point in time to leave McKinsey and four weeks later I did and fund power X. 

Julian: Amazing. I I'm curious. What, what was, what was the biggest barriers for not finding solutions? Was it the technology wasn't out there or was it the adaptability of that technology or was it just, you know, the large scale of, of changing an already the incumbent that was the infrastructure at that time at, in that area?

Manuel: That's a great question. Primarily it was really a combination of all three of these factors. So the technology overall was out there. For example, if you think about an, an a can, where they drill for. [00:06:00] It's not so difficult to put solar there and just power these remote cams via solar, and maybe a battery that you put there as well.

But then again, this is extremely, you know, we talk about a lot of dust, sometimes sand storms, you know, this is an extremely rough environment. Like the, the effectiveness of a solar panel would decrease very rapidly. So technology theoretical is there. The combination and also the adaptability to this specific use case is, is very difficult.

And then also, sometimes we don't even have wifi, you know nor nor LTE in these remote areas. So for us, it was like, what, what can we do? How can we make sure that we kind of use existing technologies to, to, to Gify like these specific cams, for example, or another example is also. Oil and gas uses a lot of a lot of steam.

So they basically, you know, they, they boil, they boil water and then the hot water vapor is being pushed down [00:07:00] into the, into the the is being pushed onto the, into where the oil recites to open up. If you will, the, the rocks down there. And like, you need, you need such a huge amount of, of steam.

You can hardly imagine. So, you know, you can like use solar panel and then a boiler, but you can also what we decided in the end, you can also have huge aluminum shields, that and a little pipe. And like these shields kind of bundle the solar. The, the, the solar race onto this pipe. So they start to boil up the, the water in this pipe.

And we have like soccer fields, multiple soccer fields of huge solar mirrors. Like, like, you know, you can like a solo mirror as large as the house that like bundles and concentrates the, the celebrates onto this, onto this pipe to, to create steam. So these were like solutions, but you, you had to not only.[00:08:00] 

Like, like they exist, theoretically. It's not difficult to have a solo mirror. Right. But then you have to combine them and also adapt them to like, to like the situation on the ground. And, and that was the rough part. . Yeah. 

Julian: Yeah. And, and so, you know, you're, you're working on solutions. It is just kind of a difficult to, to not only adapt the technology, but to, to implement it.

And what was the inspiration behind power X, you know, and, and the product that you ended up kind of focusing on at, as a solution for what it looks like as consumers, every day within their current living you know, environment, what was the inspiration behind that? Yeah. 

Manuel: As just mentioned on the, on our last project, we did a bit about like boiling water and, and heating water and how much energy is used to do so.

And that really amazed me because very often, you know, to, to boil water, such a simple thing, we, we burn a lot of gas or, or use electricity. [00:09:00] The same happens for every user in every house. Like virtually every house has a water bottle. Right. A, a water heater. Yeah. Either only for your shower. And well, when you open the faucet, you wanna have hot water, but like for example, Europe, but also like in Canada or Northern the Northern part of, of the America's you also have it for virtually room heating.

So like what's what DAC is for Florida or California is basically the hot water heater in, in many parts of the world where. Climate is much colder. And when I realized that they're really dumb, like a water heater, doesn't know when you're on vacation, a water heater just blows up, cools down, blows up, cools down, blows up, cools down.

You could virtually take a dollar bill, put a ladder on it and just, just burn a dollar bill. That's that's the same thing. It's completely wasted gas, completely wasted energy. Yeah. So when we realized. That there's so much waste out there that does not help anyone and destroys the climate at the same time, because [00:10:00] all this energy is burned.

I said, you know what? I have to do something about it. And with all the calculations and work with it from McKinsey, especially for these oil and gas clients, naturally like these water bottles are, are much, much bigger than what we're talking about in a residential setting. But the principal stays same.

So that was kind of the transfer from oil and gas and they huge amount. A huge need for, for equally huge amounts of water and, and steam, and then transfer that to a residential. 

Julian: What's the, and that's, first of all, that's amazing. Not only to adapt the product, it's kind of like how, you know, a lot of products are, are are kind of built by either industry military or some other kind of more more industrial use or you know, kind of on a larger scale and then boiled down to something, you know, pun intended to a product that, you know, consumers can use in their day to day lives.

But tell me a little bit about the transition from going to the government and private sector to now running a startup and how different that environment is. [00:11:00] What are some of the differences and what are the, so what are some of the similarities you see that 

Manuel: that is a fantastic question. You know, a startup is in a way, very unforgiving.

Like if you make a mistake in even a big mistake in oil and gas, like big industry or, or even, even for, for the government if you make a big mistake, you can still discuss about it and be of different opinion. And you say like, you know, well, that's what I thought that was my rationale, but money still comes in.

Drilling still happens. Oil still flows. Right. Okay. Damn, we made a million dollar mistake we miscalculated or whatever. It may be not good. There was a rationale for it. It's more about was the rationale fair or not while as a startup, like it's very unforgiving. It's not like, okay. You know, I had a really good rationale.

Here are my arguments and here's my calculation and I lost a million. Those fantastic. Thank you so much. Perfect. Rational, good argument. But you're out. So [00:12:00] as a startup, you have to be much leaner and it's much. Less forgiving, much more unforgiving than industry and, and government, if you will, that's number one, number two.

It's, it's also a much faster pace and much more, you know, you, you need to do it. Yeah. So get, get your hand dirty and, and, and do it in these big companies and in government it's it's easier to kind of have. You know, big org structure with different levels and layers of hierarchy while in the startup.

It's like everybody heads on deck, we need to solve a problem. Yeah. So the problem is in the center much more than any politics or like org structure or titles. Yeah. And you have to solve problems. Now that, that's why I also think that startups are so important for an economy because they really work very lean solving problems.

There's very little buffer. to, to have politics and have [00:13:00] useless meetings and so on, like a lot of, you know, things that are not very efficient, they're just cut away in the setup. Yeah. 

Julian: Yeah, no, I, I, I I love the, and, and. The, the transition from the environment. Also, it sounds like there's so much more not accountability, but maybe maybe accountability responsibility and, and also just like the, the ability to actually change the environment very quickly.

And that's what I love about, you know, running small companies. It's just the, the immediate impact that you have. And also the immediate feedback you. Helps, you know, keep things productive and move things in, in a really fast at a fast pace. And so tell me a little bit about the product. What is power X working on and how is it helping consumers you know, change their habits or allow them to change ways that they not only have an effect on maybe their, their monthly bill, but also their, their energy consumption.

yeah. 

Manuel: Three things that we do. And the first I already mentioned, we make your water heater smart. [00:14:00] Imagine a bit like a Google nest for water heating your water heater does not know when you're on vacation. If that's a vacation home, whether you're home or not, it just virtually boils up and cools down.

And each of these cycles just burns your. There's no use for anyone, not the pipes, not the water heater, not yourself. And we stopped it. We stopped the waste. Yeah. So product number one actually is able to monitor and control water heaters and save you a substantial amount of money with heat pumps.

This amount can be, can be, can be huge. Like we talk about not only 10, 15% it's this can virtually be like 40, 50% because heat pumps. You can also ask to heat if you, if you will, at a time when they're most efficient, which usually happens. For example, if there's. Let's say high outside temperature, for example, if you wanna heat up.

And the efficiency difference between like a good day and a bad day can be as [00:15:00] high as 40 50%. So us knowing this, our machine algorithms can virtually heat up when like efficiency's highest. And so we say 40, 50% in heating and that's like virtually directly converts to 40, 50%. Electricity cost and electricity cost.

So it's not only like stopping waste, it's also making it much, much more efficient depending on, on temperature differences. Then the second product that we do is water and the idea, the idea behind water and also electricity. Our third product is really what you can measure. You can manage. Yeah, there's so many base.

I would not believe in numbers, but. 70 80% of basements over, over, over 40 years have a substantial leak. And like 60, 70% of toilets virtually leak, like within, within five years of the lifetime. So like the chance that you have like leaks in your basement, in your toilet, somewhere in the wall [00:16:00] is extremely high.

We talk it's more likely than, than not any given year that you have one leg or another. Yeah, that not only wastes drinking water, just there, it also yeah, it, it, it, it also wastes your money, like a, the, the average insurance claim for a normal, you know, home or restaurant. Also, when you have a big leak is $30,000 for a luxury apartment.

It's $200,000. So that's a lot of money. If you have, for example, power X, not only are. Are you able to measure how much you spend, what you spend it on? Is it a shower, whatever whether you are, I dunno, shower's efficient or not, like it tells you a lot about efficiency, but it also helps you prevent exactly that leaks.

For example, again, saving your money, saving on waste. And then finally, our third product, electricity has the same thing. What you can measure, you can manage to disaggregate the load. So it is smart enough. Our machine algorithms are smart enough to know what kind of appliances you have in your [00:17:00] home. A yeah.

Oven or you're AC, and then can tell you, Hey, you know, you're a C. Uses way more electricity than should, or your fridge I think is from the 1970s. It's five X is as inefficient as like today's fridge. If you replace it, that's how much you'll save. So in combination, you know, electricity, water and water heating, it's virtually the most.

Comprehensive system you can build in your home. It's not invasive, which is great. Like, don't have to cut a pipe. You don't have to cut any wires. You could just clam it on. It. Uses ultrasound to shoot little waves into the pipe and see what's going on. It uses electromagnetism to measure, you know what's going on in wires.

It's, it's really fast to deploy. So like in, in total, this is, this is. And I say this as a CEO, but also because I'm really convinced about it. This is really one of the best systems out there in terms of value for, for money. 

Julian: Yeah, no. And thank you for walking through each product. I think [00:18:00] another founder I had on, on the podcast, he essentially enabled people to make you know, eco-friendly purchasing decisions and reward people for that.

And I feel like this is, is a similar product where, you know, you, you invest in having this device and but there's this long term effect with not only waste, but within your dollar amount and allowing people the opportunity to. Have to invest and then have a negative effect on them, but have a positive outcome from that initial investment, I think is, you know, really gonna be a compounding benefit for a lot of climate change initiatives that we all want.

You know, we don't wanna run out of water. We don't, we don't wanna run out of electricity. We wanna make sure we also wanna, I think a lot of people in essence want to make this these decisions and wanna make them. Technol technology like yours, I think is a step in the right direction to helping, you know, make those, those decisions.

Tell me a little bit about, I have a lot of founders who work with, with strictly software, but not a lot that work with software and hardware. What are the challenges that come with building hardware [00:19:00] and software and then implementing it to an audience or your customer base? Whew. 

Manuel: Yeah. What yeah,

What a hard question, you know, when our first VCs jumped on, they said like, are you sure, you know, hardware is. I'm like, yeah, sure. You know, no problem. Fast forward, two months, bam. COVID hit fast forward four months, Ben, the component crisis hit fast forward six months, bam. The logistic crisis hit it's like, and I was like, you know, I called him, said, you know what hardware said, hard hardware is like basically impossible.

Yeah, like doing hardware. Software is, is really challenging for a number of reasons first and virtually to. Twice a team size. Like I don't only have, you know, a backend and a front engineer. I have a back engineer and a front engineer. I have a firm brand engineer and a hardware engineer and industrial designer and somebody who manages manufacturing and supply chains.

Right. So you, yeah. Double, if not triple your team size, which means triple the cost second. Sure. Yeah. Hardware [00:20:00] in the last two years. Has been a nightmare for not only, but also startups, but also big companies. I have chips. I have components that virtually within, within days increased in price from $2 to 53.

Right. We talk about 20 X increase within days. And not, not only that, but also delete time. Like things I could buy virtually from a warehouse that arrive. Tomorrow the day after suddenly quotes me lead times of 63 weeks. So I'm like, how do you intend? I have 800 Harvard components, like, you know, little diodes and stuff in my, in my products.

How do you ever think you can build a startup when suddenly one of these components and you have 800 of them tells you, oh, by the way, I don't cost 20 cents anymore. I cost $5. Yeah. And by the way, I don't ship tomorrow. I ship in two. Which is, I am not [00:21:00] kidding. This has happened to probably a hundred of our components.

So you need a separate person that goes through each component. Redesigns the board. The last last two, three years were, were extremely tough in Harvard setups. That's the component crisis. Then we talk about logistics crisis. Sending a container from China to the us cost about $2,000, even three years.

At the height of the pandemic and everything. We talk about 18 20, 20, $2,000 per container, 10 X increase. Then at the tariff, you know, most, most products now that you should from China and China is most by far the biggest manufacturers. So like just mentioning the, it makes sense in the hardware world.

We talk about 25%, 30% added in tariff. Now put all this together to the perfect storm. You, you have like logistic logistics that take way longer. We talk about a 10, sometimes 20 times 30 X increase in time. That [00:22:00] component ship you have tariffs, which mean you cut. The cost of calculated is suddenly 25, 30% higher.

Immense for setup, you have components that suddenly increase in price by again, a 5, 10, 15, 20 X. So suddenly your cost increase only in 25%, but like 10%. And then the 25% of tariff. And then finally to, to add all this up, like you are in a pandemic and nothing really moves and Shen or like dis.

You know turns off the lights because there there's a zero COVID policy in China. So like taken together. I can tell you it, the last two and a half years in HarvestLab was not hard. It was, it, it was, it was painful beyond we managed, I don't know how, but they did. And now the situation seems to lose enough bit, which is fantastic.

But you. Great. COVID and many other things are over and we go into a, we go into a [00:23:00] significant, severe market downturn with the rush invasion of Russia into, into Ukraine. So definitely has been some tough years for startups, but yeah we are here in standing and, and I'm very excited about our opportu.

Julian: Yeah, no. And, and you know, that thank you for being so candid about the, the difficulties you face. It seems like, especially with your product, the macro environment is really what affects a lot of the, you know, not only the production, but the, the disbursement of, you know, the power X system and its ability to actually.

Do what it's intended to do, which offer a solution to his customers on saving and also, you know, saving not only the waste, but also on their dollar amount and on their wallet. You covered the biggest risk. I, I think very well. Tell me a little bit more about the traction. What are some of the the you know, kind of, kind of exciting things and exciting ways that power X is growing today?

Manuel: Absolutely. So the. Year, we basically went out [00:24:00] DTC direct to consumer. So talking about Facebook, Instagram, even Amazon, and, you know, direct to consumer is a, is a very interesting market, but it's also challenging market because you know, every consumer. It's they have all different houses. Some are like a bit more technical, advanced, some are not.

And you get questions like, do I hold this left or right. Some, imagine something really different or deep TOC market is, is, is difficult. But the first year we did and, and we got to several th several 10 tens of thousands of dollars in revenues per year with that, which was frankly great. But now we start to.

Use other channels and have some extremely interesting opportunities in the pipeline. Our pipeline now is several million size and you know, we talk about one of the largest solar companies, for example, who says, it's amazing that you guys can do electricity. [00:25:00] I wanna roll this out to all my customers and measure the solar and measure, you know net metering and this getting virtually to.

The different yeah, the different, I know often in AC and so on different appliances they have in their, their homes. Yeah. We have another very big pilot currently running in Europe and there it's about the turning heat pumps on, off and, and water heaters on off now. Why, why is that pilot? So, so amazing.

What we can do with power X is something called load balancing. Imagine that at some point in time, there's like a lot of electricity supply and very little usage. Like for example, all the, all the all the hydro plans are running. Like all the windows, all the solar panels are like at their max at their max production capacity.

And you get a lot of electricity into the grid at the same time. Very few people need electricity at that moment. That's a problem. Like what do you do with the electricity? Like there is not [00:26:00] enough batteries to store it all in. So in that, at that point in time, Paul says, Hey here, hello. We have all these water heaters.

We, we heat up all the water heater. Fantastic. All the electricity can is taken by the water heaters and, and we basically create a battery, a battery. If you will, with these water heaters, network them 10 megawatts, a small nuclear power blend, virtual nuclear power blend of, of water. If you will, batteries and low balancing capacities that we enable with networked water heaters, then at nighttime, there's too much demand and too little electricity supply, and then we can virtually.

If we know there's enough showers in, in, in the tank of the water heater, we just turn off our Armada of water heaters and fantastic. We, again, balance the supply and demand of electricity production. And electricity, electricity demand. And this is extremely interesting and extremely useful for a [00:27:00] grid.

The more sustainable entry you get into a grid like you talk solar and so on, the more there's erratic supply patterns. So the more you need this low balancing capacity that we do with like networking, many water heaters. So in a way, power X enables a lot of sustainable energy sources. Green entry sources like, like wind power and, and solar power.

Yeah. Plus we help utility companies not to overburden their grid. It's a $1 trillion market in Europe to low balancing market. And we are, we are, you know, tucked right into it with a, with a huge pilot that runs from Sweden over Germany to other countries. So I'm, I'm extremely excited. I would love to make sure we.

The primary load balance in, in Germany with our, with our. Heater 

Julian: solution. Yeah, no, that's incredible. I, I love the way that it's, it's, it's using the information that we already have in such a creative way to balance both the supply and the demand of [00:28:00] electricity and, and power and energy and water consumption.

You know, I think that's, you know, definitely the next evolution to creating a more sustainable you know, living environment for a lot of, of our communities. You know, these communities grow and grow in size and population. It it's even more important for private companies to be influential in, you know, helping that you know, that, that environment and, and, and that process become more efficient and more effective long term wise, if everything goes well.

What do you see? Power X becoming? What is your hope? What is your long term vision for the company? 

Manuel: My vision would be exactly down that line of you. Networking electricity resources, networking, water heaters. And if you can network say a hundred thousand water heaters, that's like, you know, 50 16 megawatt, probably more offload pumps in capacity.

It's virtually, it's a virtual power plant that you have that you have at your fingertips that cost you nothing to build. Yeah. Nothing, nothing to build the [00:29:00] water heaters already exist. Those water tanks, hot water tanks already exist in. It's a distributed virtual power plants of many megawatt of low balancing capacity.

So I think one, one path that I'm very, very happy, excited about is like virtually power X quote, unquote, having owning these virtual power blends by, by network water heaters. A second thing. I'm really That is a vision for parks, is that parks becomes a data company. Yeah. You know, we will know so much about electricity and water usage and what water is used for, but also what water is wasted on what electricity is used for, but also what electricity is wasted on vampire drain heating water for no reasons, ACS to turn on by your, on vacation like that, that the data we can get can prevent.

So. Waste and, and carbon emissions, if you will, at no cost to you, Maddie. Yeah. [00:30:00] At no cost to the user, like you don't care if you water the boils up and cools down. Yeah. While you're gone on vacation, you just, you just, don't like as long as you have a shower that's, that's warm once you return, that's all you need.

So my vision really is to be a data company and B have several, you know, Power blends and the management virtual power blends through load. 

Julian: No, that's incredible. I'm excited to the direction your solution's going and how not only it, it works at the consumer level, but what, what insights it can drive on, on a bigger scale to allow us to really know more about our consumption, but know more about ways we can reduce that consumption so that we can kind of share because we all share, you know, and, and I think that's becoming more and more prevalent now as resources get a little scarce at certain.

And when we do share intelligently, we can kind of mitigate a lot of the risk of, of, you know, different environmental constraints that that affect our, our energy consumption, our water consumption and really kind of [00:31:00] create sustainability for, for long term. I always like to ask my guest this because I always get different answers.

It gives me some research and I, and I, I love to give my audience you know, some more information on, on what they. learn and and, and dive into, but what books or people have influenced you the most?

Manuel: You know a very recent one. I, I mentioned different book, I think on every, every podcast, but a very recent one that I thought was amazing in, in a business perspective is called no rules. I think no rules rule or no rules, rules. One of, one of, one of these two titles. And it's, it's actually about the culture at Netflix.

Yeah. And to, to summarizing like two, three phrases why did Netflix succeed? Well, like huge companies that had, you know, many stores out. renting, renting DVDs and videos did not. Yeah. One main reason is [00:32:00] that Netflix was able to reinvent itself again and again, again, first shipping DVDs and then virtually, you know, streaming streaming videos online.

And the reason why it could do so is because it had a very specific culture, which is you, you hire and retain rock stars. Super good employee. what only, and then you remove rules, like yeah, no PD, like they, they policy, they can virtually take vacation with what they like. Yeah. They can decide where they wanna travel, whether they wanna work from home or not, where they're most efficient, you remove all kind of rules because you say these people are so good.

Like you don't have to micromanage them. And no rules rule and decorated a very, a very powerful and highly. Adaptable company like Netflix. I, I was quite impressed reading this book and I shared it with like the leadership team I have. Yeah. And it as well. And those are the same thing. It's, it's a really amazing book.

Julian: I love that. Well, thank you so much, Manuel. And last little bit, I always like to ask founders that come on, where can we support you? Give me your plugs, gimme your LinkedIns, your [00:33:00] Twitters, all the, all the ways we can support power X and you know, and where we can be fans of its, its its growth and its its success.

Where can we support? 

Manuel: Thanks so much. I really appreciate the question. Yeah. Like, like us on, you know, Twitter and Facebook and where you find this is power X. Yeah. And you know, if you like the product or, or even if you like the idea, like feel free to re review us always very happy to get some, some positive reviews.

We, you know, this is startup and we do our very, very best and work. Very hard. To produce the best product we can and, and bring the best product we, we can possibly invent out there. But the environment has not been, as we discussed before, not been hopefully helpful and supportive. Yeah. With all the crises we went through in the past couple of years.

So very thankful for, you know, kind of words, good reviews, some good feedback, how we can improve and, and. 

Julian: Love that. Well, thank you, man. Well, so much for being on the show. I'm excited, you know, not only with, with, you know, [00:34:00] sharing this with my audience, but what you're building, what its impact gonna have long term and who you're working with now and, and who you'll continue to work with.

So thank you again so much for being on the podcast. 

Manuel: Thank you very much, Julian. This, this was fantastic. Really enjoyed it. 

Julian: Great, great, 

Manuel: great podcast. 

Julian: Yeah. So next time.

‍