March 29, 2023

Episode 216: Maggie Norris, CEO of Aidaly

Maggie Norris, CEO of Aidaly, a healthcare technology company upskilling family caregivers with the training, coaching, and compensation to provide quality care in the home.

Her passion is building technology to help people take care of their families. She is motivated to design solutions for the female consumer and believes she is the key to reinventing healthcare, finance, and education.

Margaret brings a wealth of experience as a healthcare CEO, startup Advisor, Investor, and Developer with a background in consumer-focused solutions that scale. Previously, Margaret founded Uphold Health and served as Head of Product at AFTER. Before co-founding AFTER, Margaret founded Home Management Solutions LLC. the parent company of KidsGoDo inc. and exited in 2017.

She studied improv at I.O. Chicago, comedic acting and writing at The Second City, and long-form improvisation under the guidance of Joyce Piven at Piven Theatre Works. She enjoyed a brief acting career that included various commercial and film roles and was a founding member of the sketch comedy group ‘The Big P/L’.

Margaret attended Northwestern University and studied at Tufts University in Taillores, France. Margaret was awarded the National Caring Award and inducted into The Caring Institute Hall of Fame in Washington D.C. by Val Halamandaris.

She has served as an Advisor or Member/Board Member of the Chicago Leadership Alliance, Ryan Banks Academy, Women Tech Founders, The Chicago Council, and various other nonprofits.

Julian: Hey everyone. Thankyou so much for joining Dee Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have MaggieNorris, CEO of Aidaly. Aidaly, is a healthcare technology company, upskillingfamily caregivers with the training, coaching, and compensation to provide qualitycare in the home. Maggie, I'm so excited to chat with you.

As we were talking before, show, notonly have I had an intimate relationship with healthcare before and seeing kindof caregivers, but I'm so excited to see, what your company is doing to reallyempower, I don't know if it's an underserved you. part of part of theworkforce.

But it's definitely one that, needs alot of disruption and, and needs a lot of support in terms of not only toolsand, and infrastructure, but all the things that would help kind of satisfy thecare that, people need at, at, later parts of their lives and the workers thatdo it.

But before we get into all that, atAidaly, what were you doing before you started the company?  


Well, first I'd like to say thank youfor  having me. This isgreat. This is fun. In regards to what I was doing before Aidaly right BeforeAidaly I had worked briefly in Venture and prior to that I had started acompany called Uphold Health.

And what we did at Uphold Health is wehelped families navigate end of life decisions  around  yeah. Advanced careplanning and long-term care support. So it kind of lended itself nicely intowhat we're doing today at. .  

Julian: Yeah. And what got youinto healthcare in, in kind of, in the onset of your career? What wasinteresting? What was exciting? What inspired you to go into, this part of, ofthe industry? .  


Yeah,  absolutely. So, I, Ididn't set out wanting to work in healthcare. I wanted to be an improv comedian.I wanted to be a writer for Saturday Night Live. That was my, goal in life. Butin my early twenties, both of my fathers experienced cancer and I was theirprimary caregiver doing everything from bathing, feeding, administeringmedication, coordinating care along with my family.

And I just became very passionate aboutimproving that, not, not only that experience for the recipient, but improvingthat experience for  families who are goingthrough what I went through.  


Yeah. Yeah. And, and it seems like it'ssuch a common experience now for, for people to help their elders transitioneven despite of cultural background.

I, I think, my family comes from, fromMexico, and so we obviously have ways that we transition people out of our family,but it's seemingly like everybody wants a similar experience. But I'm curiousto share with the audience, and to give some context, how many people have thisas a, as a common experience for their elderly parents that are transitioningoutta life?

How many people are then tasked to becaregivers? Outside of, providing or purchasing professional care? .  

Maggie: Yeah, absolutely. Socurrently there are over 43 million unpaid family caregivers in the UnitedStates. They're doing, or sorry, 53 million. Doing everything from bathing,feeding, administering medication, coordinating care rides to and from doctor'sappointments.

And that care is worth over $600 billionto the economy. So on average, you're looking at 20 hours a. 20, 25 hours aweek. And this is a very common experience right now in the United States. It'sonly going to become more common as 11,000 people turn 65 every day in America.They're living with two or more chronic conditions, living longer thanexpected.

On less than expected. Yeah. So the roleof caregivers is, is going to increase over time. We're kind of at the tip ofthe. .  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And what,historically, has it always been, family, caring for family and or, or hasthere been an opportunity for, say, professional caregivers and what, whatessentially, I guess, would define someone's access to having somebody thatthey can, pay for and have a, as a caregiver in home, maybe through insuranceor, personal means and not, and having to rely on.

Maggie: I think this is acommon misconception that you, once you turn 65 and you're eligible forMedicare, that Medicare provides home care and that's just not the case.Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So for the average family with this rising cost of care anincreased demand I should say, Increasingly complex care needs.

So these two or more chronic conditions,complex needs that they have in the home the average family can't afford tohave a full-time caregiver in the home out of pocket. And so that often fallsto a family member who either leaves the workforce or goes part-time. And nowyou have a family unit down to one and a half income, multi-generationalfamily, often living under one roof, um mm-hmm.

And so it. A a a financial strain on thefamily to provide that care in the home.

Julian: Yeah . And is thereany outside support outside of, having to work and earn a wage? Is there anystructural support that we have now currently in our, in our government or inour healthcare system, that allows them to either be compensated or decreasethe amount of cost that they have to accrue while they're taking care oftheir  

Maggie: Yeah, so throughMedicaid there are programs, long-term care programs and waiver programs that afamily member can be compensated for that long-term care In the home, we'reseeing a shift to home-based care and, and not only Medicare, but Medicaid, or,sorry, not over, not only Medicaid, but Medicare is catching up.

To mm-hmm. , the cost savings associatedwith keeping people in the home and mm-hmm. , thinking about long-term careand, and support services in the home. I think we're just getting started withthose support services in the home offered through Medicare, predominantlyMedicare Advantage plans. But a lot of that, in-home support that then isprovided is still facilitated by a family caregiver.

So while it might provide some respitefor a family caregiver, the bulk of of that role is still, yeah. Is still onfamily to coordinate.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Anddescribe, I mean, I could think about, of course, the individual frustrationsand impact it must have on, on the family member that has to compromise to beable to provide this care.

If, if we don't address it as, as, aswhether it's a private company or as a, whether society or government, what arethe, like, economic effects and or the effects on the total population if wedon't address an issue like this? Not even just on the individual level, but youknow, in, in more of a macro level.

Maggie: Yeah, it's, it's quitesignificant. Like I said, 53 million family caregivers 500 billion worth ofcare for, to the economy. I think when you think about, well, so there's twothings. There's the workforce shortage right now. We have. 2.6 million homecare providers in Florida alone, we're looking at another 700 and 700 kproviders needed by 2026.

We just don't have the workforce toprovide this care for this aging population. And so, mm-hmm. , the way I liketo, kind of describe it, is you have this aging population that's, longer thanever. Mm-hmm. expected on less than they ever expected. Rising cost of care.Rising cost of living. And then you have a workforce that just doesn't exist toprovide that care in the home.

So the care is going to fall to a familymember. And this is why we saw during the pandemic, we saw, hundreds ofthousand. Of people leave the workforce to provide that care in the homebecause they didn't have a solution for home care. There weren't enough homecare providers to come and, and take care of, of their family.

And so as we see this aging populationincrease, we're gonna see more and more people leave the workforce. But we'realso gonna see more and more seniors falling into financial hardship, trying topay for long-term care and families. Trying to reorganize their kind ofintergenerational kind of responsibility for that care.

Yeah. And it's going to largely fall onmillennials and, and Gen Z, unfortunately. Yeah. To provide that care for thatgeneration. Yeah. Yeah, so, so really we're at a point where if we're notskill, if we're not filling that workforce need what we're having is. Lesspeople active in the workforce and less contribution to GDP and less moneyfloating around to be spent on goods and services for this aging population,which is not good for the economy in, in general in a whole.

Julian: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Andis there a specific section of the population that this affects the most? Is itdependent on socioeconomic status or region on where you. Who, who, obviously Ican see that everybody could be impacted by this, but is there a section thatin particular has a little bit more yeah.

Overall impact in, in all ways?  

Maggie: Yeah, absolutely.It's, what's interesting is it, it, it. , it impacts mostly people who are justabove that line, that Medicaid qualification line. Mm-hmm. and just below thatkind of comfortable socioeconomic background, what they have disposable incomeor, or enough resources to cover long-term care providers out of pocket.

So you have this bulk of the USpopulation. That are not quite qualified for Medicaid. And then there's a wholenumber of hoops they have to jump through. There's the Medicaid spend down.There's all kinds of financial tools that they can use, but for the majority ofthem, it requires getting on Medicaid to access the long-term care servicesthat are really the high quality services or wraparound support services in thehome that reduce that burden on.

or allow them to employ  

Julian: safely. Right, right,right. And in, in, in regards to the training and, the, the preparation thatpeople have to be able to do this type of home care and, and care for their,their, family members. Well, how, how much of a gap is there between, some, afamily member taking care of you versus somebody who's a trained professional?

How much learning do they have to takeon, but. How underqualified are they that do this in the onset? Obviouslypeople are brilliant about learning skills and and being adaptable, but on theonset of this, I'm sure there's a steep learning curve to be able to provideall this care in, not only with medication, but just in a comfortable livingkind of situation.

Maggie: Yeah, absolutely. Inmany ways, family caregivers are more qualified, right? Mm-hmm. , they have avested interest in the person they're caring for. They pay attention todetails. They're consistent day to day throughout the lives where yourtraditional home care , career caregiver is seeing multiple patients ormultiple clients in the home, and it's a high turnover rate.

So for, in many ways, family caregiversare more knowledgeable and more skilled and more competent at providinglong-term care to their loved ones. It is when they have increasingly complexneeds like changing a feeding. Or administering medication or shots. Those aretypes of things that even in a hospital or healthcare setting, it, it requiresa trained professional to do.

And so if you as a family member have notgone through the same training and so, and, and. Learned those skills. You'rereally kind of winging it. And unfortunately, when you're wing, yes, YouTube'sfantastic. You can learn a lot of things on YouTube, but I think as in general,as a health system, we don't want we don't, we don't want family caregiversgoing to the internet to learn skills.

That there's historically been greattraining and great resources for developing those skills professionally.  

Julian: Yeah, yeah. Anddescribe Aidaly and how it's helping to address that problem. What's been.Exciting about not only the, the current progress that you've seen, but alsothe the next step in where you're aiming to.

Maggie: Yeah, absolutely. Sowhat we do at Aidaly is we help family caregivers get compensated for the workthat they're already doing. We provide the training and support and resourcesto provide care, long-term care in the home. What that looks like is we qualifythem for state programs or insurance programs.

That compensate them for that in-homecare. And then through, we do all of the paperwork and then through thatprocess provide the training whether it's, background checks, fingerprints, allof the credentialing required for them to be a in-home care provider to a familymember, and then we compensate them.

Through Aidaly. I think what we're mostexcited about are the opportunities to find additional ways to compensatecaregivers, whether it's through making sure that they've gotten the, the carerecipient has received their annual wellness exam, and how much is that worthto a health plan. Making sure that that care recipient has adhered to theirmedication on a monthly basis, and how much is that worth to the health planand thinking through ways that we can compensate care.

For that work that they're alreadydoing, but then also ensure that we're kind of documenting that work that'sbeing done in the home and, and bringing the knowledge that family caregivershave about patients and, and plan members in the home, and bringing thatinformation in a, and data back to health plans and, and payers andstakeholders in a meaningful way that can help drive drive health.

Julian: Yeah. And, and how didyou define, say like the pricing structure of something like this and, forother founders out there who have a very strongly mission driven companyaddressing a really, underserved part of the population, there is a challengein identifying, the price per the value and, and, but this, this offers a lotof really unique business models.

And I'm curious, was yours always thesame and where is it now and how has it transitioned?  

Maggie: Yeah, absolutely.Well, I. Luckily for us that there's already a set rate for in-home care. Weknow we, we've set that at the state level of how much health plans are payingfor in-home care. So there is a set rate already or, or value alreadyattributed to what that in-home care is worth.

And, and so from our perspective, it'snot only training caregivers and, and credentialing them so that they qualifyfor that same compensation, but then also recognizing that there's additional.Value that they can add simply by being in the home on a consistent basis.Yeah, so we we're lucky that the, the model already exists for, for paying forhome care.

Julian: Yeah. And inparticular, how difficult and, and what's the challenge around buildingtechnology in healthcare? How often do you have to not only, reinvest ineducating the, the team on, on new, say laws or regulations or being compliant?Obviously HIPAA's a huge thing. When, when you're working with healthcareprofessionals in any degree, what are the challenges of, building around thosekind of structures?

Or is there some kind of comfort inknowing where the guidelines are and where, where your place is to provide?

Maggie: The healthcare. Yeah.It is ever changing. Yeah. So regulatory, compliance concerns just healthcarein general is always changing, and so I think part of it is just. Making surethat you're hiring people who are very passionate about what you're doing andstaying up to date on kind of the changing landscape, and then making sure thatyou have great advisors around you that have deep industry expertise that, thatbring that to the table.

That's been really helpful for us aswell. I, I'm hopeful that as we continue conversations with that, the state andthe federal level, that some of these regulatory kind of hurdles that are putin place for early stage startups like us or not for, but I guess are in placeand hurdles for us to jump.

We can find ways around those that itmakes it easier for us to serve patients in a meaningful. .  

Julian: Yeah. And thinkingabout the way, the way you build technology for such a large section of thepopulation, I'm sure your, your, your customer profile must be ever changing.And so, so large, a broad stroke that you, you, I'm assuming you would have tofocus on building very simple solutions, but that do very robust things on thebackend.

what are the challenges as a founderthat you've had had to overcome and, and some, some learning curves that you'vehad to cha take on yourself to be able to, build such a easy, I've looked atyour website. I've, I've played around with it, and it's very simple and easy,digestible, but that's not only, that's not hard or that's not easy to do.

It's very challenging. Yeah. How haveyou been able to do that and, and build a team that's been able to deliver sucha, a simple. .  

Maggie: Yeah. I think it'seasier when you were the user, right? So I was a caregiver. I know what I want.I know, or I know what I wanted. And I, I know that  

where the kind of gap in the marketexists.

And, and same with the majority ofteammates at Aidaly is, we've been caregivers or we're currently activecaregivers, and so we understand the language and we understand kind of how to,the simplest version of a complex solution that's gonna add value and drivevalue today. Yeah. For caregivers. So that's, that's been, it's kind of beeneasier to think about that. To your point about the. What happens on the backend? Yeah, it's, it's quite complex. You have moving parts of peopleoperations. You have technology and data being used. You have the regulatory Aand compliance factors. Yeah. And then you have, various stakeholders thatyou're kind of, trying to satisfy in various ways.

And so I think that it. It makes for afun adventure. It also can sometimes be challenging. Yeah. And that's the fun.I mean, I guess it is the fun. The challenge is, is the fun part. .  

Julian: Yeah, it's interestingto hear that a lot of the team members have been, or are currently, homecaregivers and describe how, what are the challenges in terms of hiring thosetypes of people and finding the right talent for such a mission, mission drivencompany and a company that I would think, relies heavily on having thatexperience be so common across the team to be so empathetic for the customers thatyou're serving.

How has it been easy to find talent? Hasit been hard to evaluate it? What have you learned as a founder? As after we'redone raising money, we're, we're building teams and, and focusing on product,but the team aspect is so cr critical for the success. Mm-hmm. .  

Maggie: Yeah, absolutely.Well, as you mentioned, I mean, it's a, it's a large demographic, 53 millionfamily caregivers in the United States, so you, it.

It's been eye-opening in interviewingpeople for different roles at Aidaly. How many have experiences as a familycaregiver or a family member? Their, their mother is a caregiver to theirgrandmother. Their sister is a caregiver to their father. I mean, that's verycommon in those discussions. I think, that's something about family caregiving.

It touches everyone. Everyone knowssomebody who's provided. And everyone knows somebody who has either dealt withthe financial hardship of being a family caregiver or the professional kind ofthey've left the workforce and have now started to reenter or reengage theworkforce after being a caregiver for some time.

And so, hearing those stories, that is abig part of what we optimize for at Aidaly is having that empathy for familycaregivers, the struggle that they've been through and, and. the passion towant to change the existing status quo and really make a difference in, inthose people's lives. And that's a huge part of our, our hiring process.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And, andthinking about it, whether it's externally or internally, what are some of thebiggest challenges that Aidaly faces today in, so you nailed it.  

Maggie: Team is just hiringthe right, hiring the right people at the right time, putting in them in. Rolein being clear on what success in that role looks like?

I think it in early stage startup,particularly startups that were founded in the last two years, they're allremote first, and so you have a very distributed team, and when you have adistributed team, a big part of. Making sure that you're working in sync isaligning communication building culture virtually is in and of itself its ownstruggle.

So I think that that's internally thebiggest struggle that we face as an organization. And, and any startup foundedin  

the last two years, or that was aliveand, and well in the last two years has experienced this problem in the future., I think a lot about building culture with a distributed team. I think a lotabout bringing the right people in at the right time I think about capitalneeds  

in the coming years and what that lookslike. I think about the competitive landscape and how we make sure thatwe're  

positioned really well for the next 10years. And I think about how are we building a differentiated solution? How arewe significantly better than what currently exists in the market? And  

continue to improve not only ourinternal product and processes and team, but also our offering to to familycaregivers.  

Julian: Yeah. And ifeverything goes, what's the long term vision? .

Maggie: Yeah. Our goal is thatwithin 10 years, everyone will know someone getting paid to provide care in thehome through Aidaly.

And we see family caregivers being anintegrated part of the healthcare system, being supported, acknowledged,compensated, like the healthcare providers that they are, and really bringingfamily caregivers under one umbrella and creating a space for them in, in agrowing and evolving healthcare e.

Julian: Yeah. Amazing. And Ilove, in this next section, I call it my founder faq. So I'm gonna hit you withsome rapid fire questions and we'll, we'll see where we get. So, so firstthings up, I always like to break this one to open up. What's particularly hardabout your job outside of, I know a lot of founders say this prioritizationbecause we've all, I think, kind of faced the issue of prioritization, butoutside of prioritization was the hardest part of.

Maggie: Knowing when to jumpin and jump out. I think that's a big part of when you're an early stagefounder, you really want to, you're so passionate and and obsessed with, youknow what you're doing, that you wanna have a hand in everything. And I thinkfor a team to grow, for a company to grow, grow, you need to step out of rolesand bring people in who are.

Better suited or, or or more equipped totake that to the next level. Yeah. And so I think that that's the hardest thingof knowing when to hire and knowing when to jump in and, and do the workyourself. So that's part of it.  

Julian: What's one of the moresurprising skills that one wouldn't have expect to have to learn when they haveto take care of a family member? Anything come to mind?

Maggie: Surprising skill?Yeah. Well, one, I think you Oftentimes there's a role reversal, meaning the,the child that's now caring for a parent. It becomes the parental role to thecare recipient.

And I think knowing how to be a goodfriend and a good advocate is a huge part of being a good family caregiverbecause you haven't been in that role for a parent or a grandparent or even asibling previously. So really just. A good friend and, and being a goodadvocate and being comfortable with that transition, that role reversal.

Julian: Yeah, it's amazing tothink about what comes in that, in that transition from that dynamic. And whatare some of the ways, I guess, just for AID'S purpose, are you investing inkind of that, that experience And it's almost like the, the mental health andlike work-life balance kind of, it seems like in that realm of like that, thathealth and.

what are some ways that, you'veimplemented in Elite to help these individuals almost like, cope with, and,and, and really, take care of themselves during this transition? Cause I'massuming not only with the role reversal, but also that dynamic change and theadditional responsibilities.

Mm-hmm. It's heavy. Mm-hmm. , it's, it'sa lot. Yeah. .  

Maggie: Yeah, it is. And sowhat a big part or a big component of what Aidaly offers is by unifying familycaregivers, kind of teasing them out of an existing home care environment wherethey're grouped in with career caregivers. We're giving them a place and acommunity of other family caregivers that have been through what they've beenthrough and can, they can lean on for support.

So a lot of that conversation happens.Organically in our community around kind of how they're dealing with theemotional strain and, and, and kind of frustration that comes with being afamily caregiver. We also offer support groups that they can jump into and, andkind of share their experience and hear other people's.

Experience and get support. And we offerfinancial coaching free financial coaching to all of our family caregivers sothey can start to get a feel like they have control over the family financesand the caregiving expenses and start to make a plan for the future. And whatwe've found is that the more organized and the better you are at planning thatde-risks or that de-stresses that kind of experience.

Yeah. And allows them to open up andthink more about. Quality of care that they're providing for a loved one. Andso we've seen those two parts of, of like the additional services that we offerto be really helpful to our family Caregiver.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It'samazing to see the, the amount of resources and what you're doing in that, thatrealm, because I assuming it has such positive impacts and even measurableimpacts, I'm sure in, in the quality of the care and the success of getting theright care and resources and for that individual to feel, in acknowledged oreven understood in that realm that, that they're not alone in this experiencebecause it's a challenge.

Thinking about just, from a productstandpoint, advice for other founders who have a target market like and, andwant to, one of the biggest challenges, I I think if, if I'm thinking of yourbusiness model in, in the right way, is just getting a lot of customers toadopt a platform and getting out in front of them, whether it's through ads orword of mouth or anything like that.

Is there anything that you've seen interms of strategies to get in terms of go-to-market strategies that have beensuccessful, like aligning with partnerships or unions or what has beensuccessful in that? Getting customers is just hard enough, but what are somestrategies that you've deployed that to kind of help expedite that growth?

Maggie: Yeah, absolutely. So,one, I will say this not being my first time around and mistakes I've made inthe past, this time around, just focusing on a small group of people that youknow that you can serve and, and making sure that it's a lovable product that,that they and, and learning from that early small group of users that is thekind of.

Lesson I would say to people trying tobuild or, or, or find growth. I just focus on a small group of people and, andnot knock it out of the park for them. And then second on growth side whatwe've seen success is tapping into existing groups, existing networks. So wehave, as family caregivers, we know where family caregivers.

We, we know the communities that they'rea part of on Facebook or the blogs that they follow or the kind of threadsthat, that they're reading on Reddit. And so go to where they are. Don't try topull them into your product because you know you wanna go to where they areand, and meet them where they're at and,

and be a part of the community thatalready. right?  

Julian: Yeah. Incredible.Yeah, yeah, definitely. See the, the, the ease of, of, taking on or the ease ofjust gaining that trust with the initial customer base, being there, beingpresident, understanding that where they're coming from. I always like to askthis question as well as kind of along the time prior prioritization piece, butis there anything that you spend too much time on that you wish you could spendless and something you spend too little time on that you wish you could spendmore as?

Maggie: Yeah. Something I've beenworking on is time to decision making. So is it, if it's a decision that can bemade in a day or is it a decision that should be made in a week and knowing thedifference? Right. And so if it's a decision that can be made in a day, itshould be made in a day.  

And if it's a decision that needs a weekor needs a month or whatever it is give it that time.

But really quickly identifying if it's adecision that can be made in a day or not. And that's been helpful. I. In theearly stages when you're trying  

to discover what's gonna work, what's,what isn't working. Also, I think the biggest thing is just focusing on what isworking. And that's super helpful. Yeah. With prioritization. Yeah. Just focusall your energy on what is moving and what's working and it kind of prioritizesitself that way. .  

Julian: Yeah. I'd love to askthis next question because I love how founders extract knowledge from anythingthat they ingest. So, there's, there's no, there's no boundary or rules here,but if you think early in your career or now, what books or people have beeninfluential or highly impactful for you?

Maggie: Yeah. So, other thanbooks and people, I would say improv I was a huge improv geek for a long time.Love improv comedy, and I think it's had the biggest impact. . And therethere's a lot of parallels to learning how to work on an improv team tolearning how to function in an early stage startup, right?

It's, you're saying yes, and you'resupporting other people's ideas. You kind of don't, you have no idea what'sgonna happen when you get on stage. You're kind of just going with the flow,but you know that you're gonna support the people that you're out there with.And really listen, listening to what other people's kind of ideas that theythrow out, agreeing to those ideas, committing to those ideas.

When the crowd laughs you all share in thatlaugh. When they don't laugh, you kind of all share in the misery that youdidn't get the laugh. So I think that that's a big part of early stage startupsas well. I highly recommend taking an improv class. It also loosens you up andlets you talk.

I, I think for me as like a more, Iwould. on the Shire side of a humans it helps me talk about complex problemsor, or more emotionally charged issues. And Kind of think on your feet andthink on your toes and, and be ready. Yeah. For, for whatever's thrown at you. Sothat's been super helpful for me, and I highly recommend it to anyone who'sthinking about not only a career in entrepreneurship, but thinking even  

if you're an early stage founder,thinking about  

getting outta your shell a little bit,helps with pitches, helps with podcasts, helps with whatever whatever is onyour agenda.

I highly recommend. .  

Julian: I've never heard ofthat on the show before, but I, I'm interested to see how many founders fromnow moving forward become improv connoisseurs. Yes. And join teams, but myselfincluded, I don't know. I'll have to, I'll have to maybe think about that one.I, I'll have to try. I mean, I'm in Los Angeles, so I, there's a lot ofopportunity around here, but my partner, she is the funnier one.

So then that changes the dynamic in adifferent way. , I'm kidding. Now  

Maggie: she's enabling you.She needs to kick you onto the stage. That's what needs to happen.  

Julian: That's probably true.That's probably true. I'd love to always make sure we, we covered everythingand I wanna make sure that we didn't put leave anything on the table.

So, is there any question that I didn'task you? Anything that you would've liked to answer that you didn't or, or thatyou would've liked to chat about? Anything that we left on the table?  

Sure, sure. Let me reframe this questionthen. Describe to the audience. Yeah, describe to the audience the impact notonly on, obviously there's a, we talked about the certain section of thepopulation that's impacted, but women in particular, you had some reallyinteresting statistics that, that you, you mentioned before the show and hadbefore the show that I think are kind of alarming in terms of thedisproportionate impact on not only women, but Kind of women of color in particularas well.

I know you had some interestingstatistics there.  

Maggie: Yeah, so the averagecaregiver is a 49 year old woman who works outside the home and is providing 20hours per week of unpaid care. An estimated 66% of family caregivers are female.So we are seeing an increase number of men, but still majority familycaregivers are women.

And the financial impact of familycaregiving equals about $324,000 in lost wages and social security benefits. Sothere's not. The additional strain on a family caregiver in addition to workthat they might be doing outside of the home, but then you have the lo the  

financial strain of lost income andsocial security benefits.

Yeah. And then, fe, female familycaregivers are spending as much as 50%. More time than their mar than malefamily caregivers spend providing that care in the home. And so I think when wetalk about the  

distribution of family caregivingresponsibilities largely falls to women. And the financial impact of familycaregiving disproportionately impacts women. .

Julian: Yeah. And, and whatcan, what can be changed in the paradigm to whether it's offer more care fromthe opposite gender, or even just make the burden not only just minimized on,on the impact of their career and also their time and everything, that's theirresponsibilities.

Is there, is there things that we canchange in the paradigm now outside of obviously cultural and societalexpectations? Unfortunately just add more responsibilities to women just in theonset. What could we change now as a paradigm? Moving forward. .  

Maggie: I think the languagethat we use is huge around what is work and what isn't work, right?

So, right. Providing care to a childwith a disability or intellectual a disability that is work providing home,home care, like, rides to and from doctor's appointments for a aging seniorthat is work. If it's work that would be compensated otherwise if a familymember wasn't doing it. If that work is fall largely falling to a woman in yourfamily.

Recognizing that it's work,communicating in the language that you're using around it I think has a hugeimpact for many family caregivers. Recognition is part of it, but then the nextstep is compensation. So if there is value, if, if you're speaking to it, whichwe know is value to it what's that?

My notification? I'm sorry. You okay? Doyou want me to start over? Can you cut that out or no? Yeah, we'll cut that.Okay. But yeah, so I think just communicating that you recognize that the workis work and, and appreciating that work. And then the second step iscompensation for that work. And, and we are seeing a trend in home care, right?

Cuz we have that existing kind of modelfor home care and. Value that's attributed to home care, but I'm, I'm hopeful thatall domestic labor will eventually follow suit in that Yeah. Roles that  

largely fall to women and thatdisproportionately impact women financially will get their recognition and thecompensation it deserves.

Julian: Yeah. It's amazing tosee that, especially post pandemic, when a lot of people had to reflect on kindof the mechanics of, of just the world and, and, their work and their life andeverything and, and how really the incentives were nec not necessarily in linewith the outcomes. The, the incentives were more so about, working for acorporation and, and even if you do, what benefits do you get from them andmake sure that it is in line with, your overall life and satisfaction.

All these. I think important aspectsthat were immaterial being, recognized as extremely important to, to someone'soverall life satisfaction. And, and a lot of people are gaining agency back inthat, which is, which is amazing to see.

Maggie: Absolutely. We seethis, we see this. When we speak about paradigm shifts of people not wanting toreturn to the in-office kind of setting of corporate America and saying,actually, I really like being able to be home with my kids.

I really like being able to sit with mygrandma during lunch, be with my grandma with Alzheimer's or dementia. Right. Ilike. Having those aspects of family woven into my life and being a caregiverfor the people in my family, that's really important. And we're hearing thisnarrative kind of across everyone is as a result of the pandemic.

And I think that that's reallyrefreshing. And it's also, yeah, we've also, the other side of it, right, ofparents who were home with children and recognizing the amount of work thatgoes into providing that support to, or, or, or caregiving to a child, whether.Kind of putting eyes to the work that goes into that.

And same with people during the pastthree years who were all of a sudden thrusted into this role of being a familycaregiver to an aging or Ill loved one and recognizing the amount of work Yeah.And support that, that requires. So, in many ways the, the pandemic was really,really hard on family caregivers.

It was also An opportunity for people tosee the work that goes into caregiving and, and start to change the narrative.So in many ways it was a blessing  

as well. .  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Maggie,it's been such an amazing conversation, chatting with you, not only about yourcareer, but also what Ailey's doing and, and kinda the overall attention thatthis section of, of the workforce really needs to, to not only have impact onthe individual level and the familial level, but also in economically and inour greater society as, as it's becoming more and more.

A, a common experience with people aspeople are aging in, in that whole in the transition in in life and things likethat. Last little bit is where can we find you? I always like, I know we'recoming to the close episode, so I always like to give my guests a chance togive us your plugs.

What are your websites? What are yourLinkedIns, what are your Twitters? Where can we support not only Aidaly, butyou as a founder?  

Maggie: Yeah, so you can go, a I d a l or see us a join Aidaly on Twitter. Join underscoreAidaly on Instagram and TikTok, and you can find me at Mag Norris, m a g n o ri s on Twitter as well.

Julian: Amazing. Maggie, it'sbeen such a pleasure chatting with you. I hope you enjoyed yourself and thankyou again for being on the show today.  

Maggie: Yeah, thank you,Julian. This has been great.  

Julian: Of course.

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