Julian: Hey everyone. JulianTorres here with the Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have Jake Wood,founder and CEO of Groundswell, a software company that enables companies tomake philanthropy and employee benefit. Jake, I'm so excited to chat with you andnot only about, your background and experience as a founder, but what you'reworking on at Groundswell and, and really the impact that the overall company'smission and goal and, and, and technology can really help create.

And a really lasting effect and, andeven offer, what I'm more interested in as well is, is, bringing philanthropyto people who, who maybe want to, or, or have thought about it, but maybe don'thave the access or means or something's blocking them in in a way that thatdoesn't allow them to have that.

So, really excited to chat about whatyou're doing within the philanthropy space. And before we get into all that,what were you doing before you started the.

Jake: Yeah, well startedGroundswell about two years ago and prior to this I was kind of still in thesocial impact space. I'd started a nonprofit back in 2010 called Team Rubiconthat I ran for almost 12 years.

And that was grew into a prettysignificant social enterprise. It was a disaster response and humanitarianrelief organization that, by the time I was done running, it had grown to about150,000 volunteers around the globe responding to. Disasters, humanitariancrises. And, I think apropo to, to the story of Groundswell and the foundinginspiration of Groundswell, raised about 300 million in philanthropy doingthat.

So just really understood howphilanthropy worked. Yeah. And also understood how it could be done better. Sothat was part of the, the transition and inspiration into Groundswell.  

Julian: Yeah. That's incredible.And, and obviously you, you've spoken on many podcasts and, and have manyinterviews around your backstory and, and your experience.

And if you don't mind giving, giving theaudience, a quick share on, what got you into philanthropy and, and also howothers like you can also utilize their skillset to, to get into something wherethere's. Working and, and servicing kind of people and community and, and how Ithink Team Rubicon in particular was a great way to unify those individualsand, and bring them into a forefront or bring them into a location where theirhelp was needed.

Yeah, if you don't mind sharing withaudience a little bit about your background and, and what got you into thesocial impact space.  

Jake: Yeah. I kind ofstumbled into the social impact space on, on accident. Started my career inservice. When I joined the Marine Corps after college, I went to University ofWisconsin.

I, I ended up enlisting in the MarineCorps back in 2005 and served two tours overseas in the infantry and as a, as ascout sniper. And so, after four years of doing that, I think I kind of feltlike that part of my life was done and wanted to move on to somethingdifferent. Had always been interested in entrepreneurship.

Never really thought. Social entrepreneurshipas a thing. But about two months after the Marine Corps, I was waiting to go tobusiness school. The Haiti earthquake happened back. This is 2010. I think alot of people forget how awful that that disaster was. The Turkish earthquakethe earthquake across Turkey and Syria has really brought back that to theforefront.

Yeah. I think 50, 60,000 people nowestimated to have died there. There were 150,000 people that died instantly inthe Haiti earthquake back in 2010. So just a massive moment was inspired tohelp kind of. Organized a team of military veterans and doctors to go downthere and not with the intent of starting a non-profit organization, but it, ofcourse snowballed into that and 12 years later, yeah.

It was a major 75 million a yearenterprise.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It'sincredible. And I was watching another interview of yours and I, and onequestion that, that I've always just like, pondered over time, I, I'm, I'm notsomeone who who has served. I, I don't have the insight here, but I'm alwayscurious how is the transition going from military into kind of civilian lifeand, and what are ways that, I guess.

Military veterans, have, I guess,difficulties transitioning into kind of civilian life and, and, and evenobviously you as an entrepreneur into being a founder of a company and, whatare some pros that you come with in terms of the training you come with, butalso what are some challenges that you face transitioning from, from one lifeinto another?

Jake: Yeah. I mean, listen,I think there's. Yeah, there's a lot of places I could take that, that questionin how I answer it. My, my wife likes to joke that I actually never got out ofthe Marine Corps cuz starting from Rubicon, right? Afterward I was just runningaround the globe running missions all over again.

And so, yeah. In some ways that, thatmade it a bit of a soft landing. I still had a very purposeful mission drivenjob and, Deploying to communities after these horrific events and, and helpingand assisting and but then, kind of what's it like going from the military tobeing a, a founder and entrepreneur.

I actually think that it was incredibletraining for that. I ended up dropping outta my MBA program because I feltlike, Like, frankly, I felt like I had the skills I already needed. When youthink about what, what I did in Iraq and Afghanistan, I was, leading or helpingto lead teams in ambiguous environments with limited information, limitedresources, and super high stakes.

And yeah, I mean, that's what entrepreneurshipis. Yeah. And so, I felt like I was pretty well prepared for it. Now, was I asadept at, how. build out a, a proforma and and forecast five years of cashflows. No, but you know, I could learn that. Yeah. That's the easy part ofentrepreneurship.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And, andin particular philanthropy, I know you said you didn't, mean to go into socialimpact and, and go into a, a space and, and entrepreneurship building businessaround social impact. But, I guess prior to, team Rubicon, what was theincumbent in terms of, after disasters and just foc focusing on that andobviously wanting to move to Groundswell, but what was the incumbent kind of Iguess reaction that, I guess whether it was companies or organizations, Inresponse to, say, natural disasters or, or, or instances where people needed alot of support and impact.

Was it mainly government? Was it,government on, on one side versus another side? Were, were there privateorganizations that were helping teams and relief? What was, what was theprocess prior for people to actually get help?

Jake: Yeah, so I think oneof the things I observed, and I didn't know this until I just started doing it,was, post-disaster situations are massive public-private partnershipopportunities.

Obviously the federal government, stateand local governments are, are heavily involved and it's really that state andlocal government that's most critical in those, in those moments. But thenthere's a patchwork of both formal and informal non-governmental organization.So you think about formal NGOs like the American Red Cross.

Yeah. Great organization. And then youthink about informal networks. You think about houses of worship, churches,mosques, synagogues. I mean, that's where, particularly in this country, yousee a lot of people stepping in to fill the void. I think what we saw as theopportunity was, we've had 3 million men and women come home from wars in Iraqand Afghanistan.

They've been trained with taxpayerdollars in really specific skill sets that are very easily translatable into adisaster zone. Like, why not build an organization that inspired them to cometogether and repurpose that skill? That was really the vein that the TeamRubicon tapped into.  

Julian: Yeah. And in terms ofGroundswell, what inspired you to build, a, a software company, kind of focuson philanthropy and in helping companies and, and, bring the, use theircorporate dollars for philanthropic purposes and, and helping their employeeswho maybe.

Want to go in that direction or want tohelp people. But obviously there, there are time constraints with that. Andthere's, there's , a cost and to, to taking your time away from work, what gotyou into creating a software, creating a, a platform? What was the, I guess,the catalyst for, using technology to solve this problem?

Jake: Yeah, so again, Iraised about 300 million when I was running Team Rubicon, and I, I raised a lotof it from individuals. I raised a lot of it from companies, and I think I, Ilearned two truths. The first truth is, the way that rich people give theirmoney away was vastly different than the way that average people gave theirmoney away, and I just saw that as fundamentally unfair.

America's the most philanthropic countryon Earth, and it's not even close. And I feel as though we could use technologyto level that playing field so that everyone could give like Bill Gates or gettax like Warren Buffet. And the reality was there was just the haves andhave-nots when it came to that.

So first, the first problem we wanted tosolve was democratizing access. To these tools that ultra wealthy people use togive their money away. Mm-hmm. . The second thing that I saw was that companiesthink they're really good at giving away money, and they're not. It's just not,it's not, they're good at making money, they're not good at giving it away.

And that, there's a couple of differentways that they fall short. But I think most specifically, I saw companiesmissing an opportunity to engage their employees in that philanthropy bydemocratizing access to it. So instead of the CEO deciding where the company'sgonna give a six figure check because he or she's on the board of a localnonprofit, how do you now inspire and empower your people to bring their valuesto work authentically by giving them the opportunity to invest in the solutionsthat they think are best to the problems that they think are most pressing intheir community.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And whatdoes that access look like in terms of, you say the haves and the have notshave some accesses of resources. Is it benefits, is it knowledge in terms of,taxpayer benefits that they're able to also accrue based on the help that theycan provide? What is I guess the, the lack of information. Where is that andwhat can people know more about?  

Jake: Yeah. So when high networth people give money away, right? They first, they give it through a taxadvantage. Giving a vehicle called a donor advised fund, every high net worthperson on the planet has one of these funds.

Yeah. Creates enormous tax advantagesfor them in their philanthropy. The second thing is, rich people don't go, I'mspeaking in generalizations here, but rich people don't go and do their ownresearch on these issues when they're inspired to give. They have consultantsand philanthropic advisors mm-hmm.

who are going and chasing down the bestorganizations in response to some inspiration or motivation to give. So if, ifa rich person says, Hey, I want to address homelessness here in Santa Monica.They're not going in and digging in and home on homelessness as an issue.They're saying, Hey, who can I pay $25,000 a year to come back and bring me areport on the issue at a systemic, strategic and tactical level?

And who are the best players in thisspace that are addressing it? And so we felt like there was an opportunity to,one, make these donor advised funds more accessible. So we've built the world'smost modern, affordable and approachable donor advised fund that anybody canuse for just as little as $1.

The second thing is that donor advisedfund, because it's built via a native mobile application for iPhone andAndroid, look, you have access to the information and resources at yourfingertips for those issues. So we have our consultants feeding yourecommendations on what you should support, based off what your demonstratedissues are.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Thinkingabout the issues, I think, a lot of us know household names, obviously the, theAmerican Red Cross, who we all know about those organizations, or think St.Joseph's Children Hospital, there's, there's so many of the largerorganizations. But discuss, is there anything or discuss, I guess the, the, Idon't know if you have any numbers, the quantity of amount of organizationsthat are out there in terms of the opportunity that a lot of people have tomake impact even locally in their c. That that we may not just be awareof.  

Jake: Yeah. So people willprobably be astounded to know there's over 1.5 million charities in the UnitedStates. Wow. In the United States registered with the irs. And most of those,to be completely fair, are really small, like less than $10,000 a year inannual budgets.

Yeah. But, and there's still, upwards ofaround 50,000 nonprofits in the US with 5 million budgets or more. That's abunch of nonprofits. Now here's the interesting. People like to give where theylive. Yeah. And they tend to like to give to hyperlocal organizations. So I'lluse an example. We recently took one a, a customer live just two months ago.

It's a company called Whitley based outof Wisconsin. Mm-hmm. , about 3000 employees. They're an accounting and taxadvisory firm. And of the first 1000 employees that, that registered withGroundswell and began giving. Funds they gave away to something like almost 800different organizations.

So you think about 80% of theirdonations are going to in a completely unique nonprofit. Yeah. So I thinkthat's just indicative of how diverse their people really are. Yeah. Even ifthey don't look diverse on paper, what they care about is gonna be wildly.  

Julian: Yeah, yeah. Everybodyhas such a unique story or some experience, something that they connect to andwhether it's in their community or even a little bit further, from that andfurther removed from that.

People come from such differentexperiences. And one thing I, I was particularly excited about and, andinterested about is I don't know if you have any numbers that you could share,but what this allowance or what does access to being able to. As an employee oras a more, or, or I don't wanna say lower net worth individual, but somebodywho say doesn't have the means or the access.

If we're all able to actually startgiving and start giving back to all these organizations, what's the impact thatwe can see even in our day-to-day lives? Will we see something that will be,measurable, I guess like even, even or observable. .  

Jake: Well, listen, we namedthe company Groundswell for a reason.

We, we want to inspire a movement wherewe can make American philanthropy, which is 500 billion a year, right? That wecan make that more efficient and unlock, and lock, unlock even more. It'sestimated that, employees working at companies miss out on five to 7 billion ofeligible employee matches each year.

So they, they have the ability to go totheir employer and get their donation matched. Almost $7 billion goes unmatchedbecause the, the systems are obscure, the process is, is abysmal, and so theemployees don't even do it. So we wanna close that gap first and foremost.Yeah. But then beyond that, again, rich people, they, they don't donate cash.

They donate things like stock. Landappreciated assets. And by doing that, they avoid capital gains taxes on thosegifts. So they're able to give more, the nonprofits receive more. How is it thepeople of normal means? People like you and myself can also do things likedonate stock. We wanna unlock that so that everybody can be as charitable andimpactful as they want to be.

Julian: Yeah. And what aresome of the biggest challenges that Groundswell faces today? .  

Jake: Well, I mean, listenour bank just collapsed, we're on the verge of a recession. I mean, there's,there's no shortage of challenges. If you're an early stage startup, and I'msure, if you have a lot of founders and CEOs and your, your audience, they'll,good chance that a bunch of 'em were scrambling over the last seven days likeme to, to figure out how they could even access their capital.

Yeah. But you know, we're, we're runninga B2B company right now, and it's not easy in this economic environment to beselling into companies. Particularly when, I mean, let's be honest, we don'tsell mission critical software. Yeah. It's not cybersecurity, it's not databasesoftware. It's, it's, it's in some ways a nice to have.

So it's not without challenges. Yeah.But I think we also have a lot of a lot of tailwinds. Right. We there. A, ashift in the importance of social impact. Things like acknowledging and, andcelebrating diversity, which we certainly can be a, an element of. There'sdemographic changes that are happening in the workplace where younger, youngeremployees are demanding stuff like this.

Yeah. They wanna work for virtualcompanies. And so how do you deliver for that younger demographic?  

Julian: Yeah. And ifeverything goes well, what's the long term vision for Groundswell?

Jake: Well, we think we canbuild, a generational company. The way I think about it, back in 1980, the 401Kwas created and within three within three years, almost 8 million Americans hadhad 401ks.

And of course, now, you can't go get ajob for the most part without seeing a 401k as part of your offer package. Andso we certainly hope that the future. In, in, future of compensation includesdonor advised funds as an element. And, we intend to, to be the company that,that makes that future a reality.

So we're excited to build it.  

Julian: Yeah. And, anddescribe, when, when we're say approaching it as a user, say my company has,began working with Groundswell. How will I see that as an employee? Will I seeit as a part of a benefits package, like a health healthcare plan? Will I seethe ability to opt in or will it, is it like a, a 401K kind of software like,like a Carta where I can see my contributions and kind of track and, and what,what is my impact as an employee and how am I interacting with the software?

Jake: Yeah. So it's kind ofall of that. So you as an employee interact with the software by downloadingour app onto your phone and creating an account. And think of it like a, aVenmo or Chase banking app. It's a, it's a modern FinTech application. You can,it's a, and it becomes your own personal donor advice fund.

So you can do things like route all ofyour personal philanthropy through it. You can donate stock to it, take, that,that full ride off without invoking capital gains. But then the companies canrun gift and match programs into that. For those companies that do currentlyoffer matching their employee donations, this is a very common perk thatcompanies have.

That match just automatically happensinto your Groundswell account. So if you put $500 into your account, thecompany's match of $500 will just immediately be available in that account foryou to give away. So just really recreating that experience, making it moreimpactful and powerful and allowing employees to, we, we like to give likegates, get tax, like buffet, get rock recognize like Rockefeller, you should beable to give like your ceo. We believe that.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Anddescribe, I guess I would love to hear your perspective, your opinion. A lot ofpeople have say, there's been news kind of over time, over the few, over theyears of organizations that are seemingly supposed to be philanthropic, but,using, the capital that they have and whether it's nefarious ways or as a badactor or even not in the purpose that you intend to, is that.

Is, is are those commonplace? Or shouldwe have more confidence as contributors in other organizations? And how do wevet organizations that we want to give to or want to contribute to? But whetherwe have ground slot as a tool or not how can we find the information to knowand, and feel confident in the organizations that were aligning ourself withthe contributing.

Jake: Yeah, let's not, Ithink that financial malfeasance within nonprofits is is a boogeyman that getsvastly overplayed. Yeah. You hear, you tend to hear one account of a nonprofitmisappropriating funds, and people tend to extrapolate that across an entireindustry Yeah. Of people who've dedicated their lives to doing good.

And it's, I think it's just really unfortunate.You, you'll sometimes, often hear people say, oh, I don't want to give to anonprofit. It's just lining the pockets of the people working there. Listen. Ifyou're someone that's working at a nonprofit where your salaries are publiclyavailable, like you have to list your salaries on IRS documents.

This is not a get rich scheme. Sure. ,if somebody's going through the effort to do this, like they, they're thedumbest person on the planet, cuz you just, it's just not, it's not an issue.By and large people that are dedicating themselves to working in nonprofitscare deeply about the issues they're facing.

They're experts in the issues thatthey're solving and you can trust that they're going to be good stewards ofthose finances. So, I encourage people to, to like dig a little bit deeper onthat. Yeah. But we also want Groundswell to be a source of truth. We wantpeople to be able to easily evaluate a nonprofit's finances from within theapp.

We think that's their right. It's allpublicly available information, and we want to be the place where people knowthey can go to easily.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. I likethis next section. I call it my founder f faq. So I'm gonna hit you with somerapid fire questions and okay. We'll see where we get. First question is,what's particularly hard about your job?

Jake: What's particularlyhard about my job is boy, I think, I think right now in this environment, it's,it's ensuring that I can keep this team motivated and inspired to make itthrough, a recession, a looming recession. Yeah. Everybody on this team is init to win it. Mission oriented. But hey, there's, it's challenging times ahead.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. What aresome ways that you re reinstill culture as a function of your team and as afunction of your job? A lot of founders talk about, when you throw up values orthrow up beliefs. It's one, you kind of put the the direction or the compass onwhere the company wants to go, but reinstilling that over time to make sureyour team's cohesive is a challenge and there's certain ways that they tried toreinstill it, and whether it's standup conversations or reviews or teamgatherings.

What are some things that you foundhelpful to resell culture in? .  

Jake: Yeah. Listen, I thinkculture is, is everything. And it is always right, every moment, everydecision, every action, every process you put in place better reflect theculture that you want. And the standard is really high for the leader you have.

There's no, there's no mulligans, right?There's no, whoops, that got that moment wrong. So perfection is theexpectation when it comes to that founder for living and breathing thatculture. Beyond that, I, I'm a big believer in culture is perhaps the tone isset with the founder, but it's, it is built, made and maintained by makingeverybody an owner of it.

So I really work to reinforce this senseof shared ownership for our culture. That's the type of place where people workwhere people want to work, I should say. They want to work for a place wherethey feel empowered and, and really, truly a part of it. And that's, that's thesecret sauce around here.

Julian: What are somechallenges or things that you've learned building software in particular thatyou didn't know going into it?  

Jake: Everything . I mean,listen, my, my, my three jobs prior to this, I was a football player. I was ascout sniper, and I was a disaster, executive, I didn't know the first thingabout software.

So I'm learning every single day.  

Julian: Yeah. Is there onething in particular that you've learned that other founders can, can I guessspeaking through the learning curve on something that, that, that you wish youknew earlier on?  

Jake: Yeah. I, I, I thinkthis is kind of universal software, otherwise it's, don't let perfect be theenemy of good.

You have to move quickly as a founder. Youhave to, get that MVP shift. You have to find that product market fit, and thatrequires you to Build solutions that are probably going to embarrass you 12 or18 months out. But if, frankly, if you don't last 12 or 18 months, it was allfor nothing anyway.

Julian: Yeah. What's, what'ssome of the ways that you've seen the nonprofit space advance or adapt orchange in regards to new ways that they're that they're giving back tocommunities, whether it's new technology that they're implementing, newstrategies, new infrastructure. I think a lot of us think like.

Money, food, and maybe some otherresources, but it's a little vague from, if you're in the non givingperspective. So what are some ways that you've seen that in terms of nonprofitsinterjecting some, some new ways to, to help and impact your company?  

Jake: Yeah, I think there'sbeen a, a great generation of social entrepreneurs who have with kind of theease of software development that's taken place over the last 10 years, begunto build solutions that are customized for the nonprofit space.

So where. You used to get stuck tryingto shoehorn B2B platforms that were truly built for a for-profit environment,whether it's your crm, your e r p your, your checkout page, your ability toraise funds in process like stripe transactions. All of those were imperfectfits for non-profit models.

And you've seen. Some really great,innovative companies pop up exclusively servicing, servicing the nonprofitsector with custom tools. And it's been I think it's unlocked just a ton ofefficiency for nonprofits.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. What's onething that you spend a lot of time on that you didn't expect to spend as muchtime on at starting as an entrepreneur?

Jake: You know, This is mysecond time. Yeah. So I'm, I'm not sure I've been caught off guard by too much. It's the same thing. It's, it's what's the purpose of the company that you'rebuilding? Who are the people that you're bringing? And then, it gets back toculture, which we spoke about.

Yeah. If I, if I get, if I have theright unity of purpose, if I bring in the right people and I give them aculture that's guiding their decisions, their actions, their attitude, Withoutmy intervention, then we're gonna go far and we're gonna go fast.  

Julian: Yeah. How do you findgood people?  

Jake: How do you find goodpeople? You create something that people want to be a part of and they findyou.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. I lovethat. If you weren't working on Groundswell, what would you be doing?  

Jake: If I wasn't working atGroundswell, what would I be doing? I, I think I ran Team Rubicon for 12 yearscause I was nervous. Even though I knew I wanted to start another company, Iwas nervous that I wouldn't be able to find something that was as purposeful oras impactful as Team Rubicon.

And so I feel very fortunate that I cameup with this idea for Groundswell. Cause it gives me that purpose and impact.If it wasn't running Groundswell, it's hard to say. Yeah, , I don't thinkthere's an alternative out there for me. Right.

Julian: Yeah. I love to askfounders that question because we're so entrenched with the idea that we'reworking on currently that it's nice to see, see if there's something that'seither nagging at the mind or, or if you really haven't thought about it.

And it's always so interesting because,  

Jake: I, I don't give myselfthe opportunity to to cheat on my, on my ,

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. If youwere to have a magic wand and have one wish what's one thing that you wish acompany could have now rather than either wait for it or not have it, at all?What's one thing that you wish your company could have now?  

Jake: 5 million in Arr.  

Julian: Yeah. .  

Jake: Yeah. I mean, yeah.Yeah. I, I mean, listen, I just, I, I wish , I wish we could have a, a pipelineof qual, highly qualified prospects that seem limitless right now, and wedon't.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ialways like to ask this question because I love how founders extract knowledgefrom anything that they ingest.

So please feel free to share a anythingfor this next question. But whether it's early in your career or now, whatbooks or people have influenced you the most?

Jake: My dad was veryinfluential on me and was somebody, someone that I can certainly considered a,a friend and a mentor. He just had a great perspective on how to be a standupperson really in, in any situation.

And I, I hope I learned that from him.Beyond that, I've been fortunate to be surrounded by incredible colleagues. Ithink one of the. important things I did at Team Rubicon was hire supertalented people and put them all around me in a, and put a culture in placewhere they could challenge me. They could make me better every single day. AndI feel really lucky to have done that.  

Julian: That's amazing. Anybooks, any, anything, any knowledge that you've, you've ingested that you'vetaken and, and still kind of used to this day? .  

Jake: Listen, I, I was on apanel yesterday at South by Southwest and, and that question came up and I, Ithink I, I don't read as many books these days as I used to.

I more now immerse myself in kind ofcurrent events. Mm-hmm. , and I think I, I try to immerse myself in thosestories, not just from how they're being reported in the news, but a, a leveldeeper. Cause I, I think that. Looking at things like what's happening inUkraine or systemic oppression of minorities in China.

Like, all of these things help youbecome a better entrepreneur. Cause they, they are, they are stories aboutimmense challenges. For which there's no simple solution, and so it stretchesyour mind in ways. Yeah. That you don't get stretched running a softwarecompany. And so I just think that it provides, perhaps a little bit of adifferent computational capacity in my mind for when I'm seeing somethingthat's truly a novel.

Challenged for the first time.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. That's,well, well said. And well said. Before, before we give you a chance toobviously share your, your websites, your LinkedIns and where we could find youis there anything I didn't ask you that I should have or that you would'veliked to answer?  

Jake: I, I just, I, I thinkthat the only thing I would, I would end by saying is like, we see the stakesfor our company as very high.

There's no shortage of, of challenges inour communities, either our global or our local communities. And I think thatit is a, a whole of humankind effort to resolve them. So we're really excitedto, to build a platform that's, gonna at least power some component of. We talkabout our vision being a future in which every problem, every solution isfunded and every problem is solved. So it's ambitious, but you know, the onlythings worth pursuing are so.

Julian: I love that. I lovethat. And last little bit for our audience. I know we've come to a close andit's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. Where can we find you? Wherecan we find Groundswell? Give us your websites. Where can we find you as afounder?

Give us your LinkedIns, your Twitters,and know, where can we support you? And also if we have a company that'slooking for alternative ways to benefit their employees, where can we findGroundswell?  

Jake: Yeah, so Groundswellis easy to find www.Groundswell.io. And obviously we're, we're active acrossall the social media channels.

I'm, I'm happy to connect with any ofyour listeners directly on LinkedIn, Jake Wood you can find me pretty, prettyeasily. If you wanna learn more about the great work team Rubicon's doing,they're, they're easy to find as well. Team Rubicon usa.org. And again, I wouldjust encourage folks to, to come and find us, connect, take in our content andsee if democratizing philanthropy is something that you're interested incompany.  

Julian: Amazing. Jake, it'ssuch a pleasure. Not only learn about your back here, around your experience.Transition from the military into an entrepreneur, that whole transition and,and how it seems as though, there was a lot of tools and training that thatreally helped guide you in this, in, in this next kind of stage in your life.

And also exciting to see what kind ofimpact Groundswell has been been up to and, and how we locally and, and if wedon't have a huge network, but we can still access ways to, to give and we canstill be a part of that whole mission. So it's been such a pleasure to have youon the show, and thank you again for joining us.

Jake: Yeah, of course. Thankyou for having me.

Julian: Of course.

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