Julian: Hey everyone. Thankyou so much for joining the Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have ChaoCheng Shorland co-founder and CEO of ShelterZoom a leading blockchain basedsmart docent SaaS provider. To here today. , Chao thank you so much for joiningthe show. I'm so excited to chat with you, especially about the future ofblockchain and, and all the different applications.

Some that we, you know, I think arepopularized and, and most people know about, but I think what interested me themost is the underlying things that we're not so aware of or that businesses aretaking part of that are gonna be pretty much just normalized in our day-to-day,kind of underlying the experiences that we have, which I'm so excited to chatwith you and what you have going on at ShelterZoom and the different productsyou're, you're working on feature.

, but before we get into all that good,You said, you know, in, in your background experience, you actually did somework for the Vatican in, in some of their docents, , , , kind of validationand, and, and, , clarification and things like that. , was there anything that,that surprised you about their docentation when you were working with themduring that project?

Chao: , yeah, the , mainpart we actually did really helped a, , Vatican's library called Ponti,Pontifical, Institute, sorry, it's the mouth for, and the library, which storesa lot of, , very rare manuscripts and helped tokenize those manuscripts So oncethe docents get tokenized now the institute actually has full control overthose.

docents and then have the control overrecipients, , share and download and access as well. So, , I wanna say it's avery interesting project, obviously, you know, it was the first time weactually, , exposed ourself into this, , territory and it was a very, ,interesting and a collaborative, , yeah, project.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And how doyou tokenize a physical object? Is there something that you put on the objector encase it? What essentially validates that? The original is actually theoriginal. Obviously we know the digital asset is because we can track it. , buthow do you tokenize something physical? .

Chao: So, , actually itneeds to go through the dig digitization process first.

Mm-hmm. . So really once the manuscriptsgets, , , digitized and then the tokenization gets immediately applied to that.So it's very much like, , you have, , lot of historical records or, , you know,other type of paperwork. If companies actually want to tokenize, they canpreserve all those historical.

So similar to manual scripts. Yeah. Youdo need to go through the scanning the, , the, , digitization first andimmediately put the tokenization on top.

Julian: Yeah.  

And what kind of technology do you needto say, , , validate that the docent is, , what it, is it, it's from theofficial, official source. Is there some kind of platform or technology thathelps people do so or is there something in the underlying, you know,information on that  

docent that tells.

us

Chao: Yeah, so we inventedour own, , docent tokenization technique and which is patented and alsotrademark called docent token and the contract token. So, , the technology weuse, we actually leverage, , high pleasure fabric, which is enterpriseblockchain. So within the, , high pleasure fabric, we set up, , multiple notes.

So when actually, , , the docent gettokenized and we actually distribute the. Through multiple nodes and makingsure the data becomes immutable, so you can't really modify, and then youalways have the trackability, you have the ownership. So it's all built intoour tokenization technology. But what happens is with the, , this, ,foundational technology, we build a lot of applications on top.

So our company is really a solutioncompany, not, , really focusing on this infrastructure layer as such.Blockchain infrastructure layer is, a lot of companies do that, but ours isreally the level two and the level three. So we do integration, we doapplication.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And what,what technologies on the blockchain level do you, , say, say tokenize these?

I'm assing they're smart. Essentiallythat you're, you're building and creating. , do you use Ethere? Do you use anyother type of, , already kind of current blockchain infrastructure andtechnology?  

Chao: Yeah, we use, ,Hyperledger Fabric, so it's not a public, , , blockchain like Ethere. So weused to be on Ethere.

So what actually, , we, the reason wemoved away from Ethere, because the vole, it just doesn't support. , the scaleas we needed. And also it's very costly. So if you look at the, , you know, thebusiness solutions, enterprise solutions, and majority of those, you know,really meaningful solutions are built on, , enterprise blockchain, whichactually makes total sense.

So, , so we, that's, , where, , yeah,our technology, , .  

Julian: Yeah. And what aresome of the most interesting applications? Obviously the Vatican one is sointeresting. I don't think a lot of people are, you know, kind of think about,, institutions like that being so modern and, and having modern technologyintegrated, which is so cool.

, but what other interestingapplications have you seen, , your product be. ,  

use for

Chao: there are so manybecause, , we actually build a mainstream product. It's not a, like a nicheproduct or product, like it can only be used by certain, , enterprise orcertain business. It's really a mainstream product. Anyone want to protecttheir docents, want to be able to securely share the docent, control the docenttracking who, and also have full control over their recipients can use ourproduct.

So I'll give you, , several, , usecases. For example, , let's say, , the data leak and so many organizations havethe docent leak or information leak, including say, United States HighCo. Ifuse our technology, that will be completely prevented. So, and then, , we alsohave a partner is in the EU nuclear waste management space.

So now with the nuclear scientists oryou know, data scientists, they can go to the field, use our mobile app, take aphoto, Completely secure and private. So you only you can content, , receivethose photos and also, , manage those photos so no one else, not even, , youknow, the cloud provider can see that.

So, , then that, , use case, , come to,, legal for example. So legal is our another, , major vertical. So the legaltech, , embracing this, , technology for very confidential information sharing,IP protection, trademark protection, and also even just the normal, , email from,, you know, , like Attorney to, , client can just use our technology as a emailextension.

Yeah. So, , the other one, which isgetting really big is our, , use case to establish the world's very first, ,case. study For medical. So through our technology now, the patients can own,finally own their own medical records, be able to own, be able to share, beable to control their own, sharing with third party provider, with, ,pharmaceutical company, with, , their family.

So anyone, , now having our, , solutionand the hospital, once they integrate with our solution, their patients all cannow, , access the, all the medical records in real time and be able to, ,deliver, you know, like, , yeah, get the care much faster. Yeah. So, so there'sso many use cases really, and another thing, but a lot of people ask us, whatabout a songwriting?

Say, yeah, if a, if a, , like a famoussongwriter or, you know, if that person, you know, have a 1 million. instead ofyou share that and you have 1 million people downloading that, you now everyonepoint back to one token only.  

Julian: yeah What is theactual usability of say the, the technology from an extraction standpoint or avisibility standpoint? When I'm either a patient or provider or a doctor, , howdoes that, how does that work? How can I get access and how does that access, ,given to me, is it through a platform? Is it, yeah. What in particular? How,how's it done?  

Chao: Yeah. So what weactually delivered is a very simple extens. So this extension and doesn'tchange anyone's workflow. So for example, a hospital, they already have theirown patient management, , platform where they have their hospital assistance.So they just put our, , docent GPS as a plugin.

And when, , those medical records get is.Established. So for example, someone finished the consultation or their bloodtest results come back, or the radiologist, you know, the x-ray results comeback and they can just press our extension and as soon as they press ourextension, their medical records get tokenized.

So once the, those medical records gettokenized and then it will be really securely available, , on patient's. ,Yeah, so now the patients come in and then use our docent GPS dashboardimmediately see all their docent tokens. It's really all tokens sitting behind.Yeah. But it looks like just like a novel medical record.

Then now from that point onwards, theycan control the sharing control, who they share with, and whether that personcan have to download the rights, forward, the rights, or they can revokepeople's access at any time. So they have full, , you know, control over theirown medical. Yeah. So that's just how simple it is.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It's sofascinating the, the way it functions, and I think I mentioned it earlier inthe show, it's just gonna happen under a layer that we don't even see. And, ,and, and how far are we from having say all docents, you know, outside of this,you know, your company and your solution, , in, in this layer of security andvalidation and authenticity, how far away are we from having everything onthere?

If you were to just gimme a ballparkfigure. Yeah, every, every docent token tokenized and, and, , havingattractability and, and, and kind, having most, the most important kind of piecesof validation along the process. Having, having all that wrapped up into a, atokenized, , piece of docent.

Chao: Yeah, so, , wealready, , cared out all the functionalities for people to, from thetokenization, , ownership, to control, to security. So this whole, , entire, ,you know, , all the layers already been built and also already have a lot ofuse cases and pretty much, , I will say the, , all, , probably big techcompanies and the big force, you know, all, , those large companies already allcontacted.

because the simple thing we can offer tothem is, , to prevent, , from cyber attack. , so for example, they have theirown docent management system, and through our API we can actually, , integratewith their system and immediately protect their docents, their information,their content, and then give them the ownership, give them control over the,the tracking as well.

So, , yeah, so it is really a wholepackage. So, and then some actually pre-built, for example, the email we havepre-built with Google and with Microsoft Outlook, but also have the APIcapability for companies to connect with us. Yeah.  

Julian: And what, going backin time here, what initially was the inspiration for shelters and what were youdoing before the company and then what, what got you into doing this inparticular?

, you know, so many, I think it was 5,5, 6 years.  

Chao: Yeah. So, , I actuallywas working in the, , the corporate world for like 20 years before I startedShelterZoom. So at the time I was a, a enterprise architect mm-hmm. . So, ,basically becoming the bridge between innovation, technology and the business.So it's like a business strategist, but using technology as an enablement.

So over the years I actually, , manageda lot of, , large program. And as a lead architect, like a chief architect. Sofrom the ERP transformation programs in several different companies to, , youknow, the whole supply chain, , like operations, like a international, , supplychain and multi multibillion dollar company, kind of, , you know, the project,, budget.

So, , those, , type of programs reallymade me realize one. and everywhere we go, it doesn't matter. It's a, a amazingcrm, , product or eerp product or other, you know, AI and very simpleproductivity kind of pack. The one thing's really missing is docent contractcontent management. So we have a product, , you know, kind of in existence forsure, but nothing is truly that intelligent, truly like a trackable, auditable,and have that capabilities Blockchain can offer you.

So that was like a really a many yearswork experience identified that there's a major market need. Yeah. And in thisarea. So that was like, , my, , aspiration, really trying to create something.I know I can do that and be able to build something so innovative and reallybenefit everyone so it can be so agnostic.

Julian: Yeah. And I guess in,in the initial start of ShelterZoom film now, what has been the advancement inthe technology that you've seen? And if you had any piece of technology you,you have today, , you know, from, from from now until when you started thecompany, what piece of technology would you have loved to have earlier on?

Chao: Wow, that's a reallygood question. , so five years ago when we first started the ShelterZoom in thefirst project, and we already decided to go on blockchain, And at the time, youknow, I've kind of like, , over the years, I, I have, , done for over 1000applications, you know, as a architect, right? So you really came across somany when you do the vendor selection to, you know, , you inviting othercompanies to bid for your project and really see the end to end solution.

And, but what I didn't actually comeacross was blockchain technology at the time. So when we first started theShelterZoom, that was even very new to myself. You know, even after, you know,so many years people called me like application, and this is never really.myself. But the concept, the whole, , you know, the, , architectural, it trulymakes sense.

And because if you look at this wholeWeb2 is a completely mess. You know, the, the data is all the place, allreplicated, all polluted, and nothing you can trust at the moment. So there'sno, , you know, the trust and auditability trackability anymore. So content ownerno longer owns any content.

Everyone can copy. your content So theblockchain actually really restored that order. And, but what actuallyinteresting was, , at the time, no one thought about using the blockchaintechnology to do the tokenization for docents. Everyone was looking at acryptocurrency, really. The , Digital asset. And then a few years later wasnft.

But at the time we actually build a veryfirst, , docent, nft, but we didn't even know that was called nft. It's becauseit's a non token, right? So it's a different type of token, but the concept isactually really the same. So I think, , you know, if you look at the, ,technology advancement and from the very early days of, , blockchain.

To how we invented the first, , docenttalking in the world. And we have actually added a significant, , advancementto the world in advancing blockchain. If, if, I mean ShelterZoom did, insteadof, we saw many other companies contributed into this, , , area. We areactually the, the biggest contributor into this area ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's why we are veryhighly recognize. For example, last year, Gartner included us in, , hub Cycle,, and , for blockchain web three for last year. Yeah, so we were in twocategories, tokenization and advanced, , blockchain service, and this morningwe were invited by Gartner Research Group and as a one of the only two.

, case studies they could really find inthe business solutions, right? So they deep dive into our technology, our usecases. They were so shocked it was already that advanced. So it was like a kindof, , the, I think the, the main reason was not because like we definitelybetter than others, but because our focus on blockchain is so different fromevery other company, we come.

Because we are really focusing on thebusiness benefits, business outcome. We never really use technology just forthe tech technology sake. Yeah. Because technology, it doesn't matter how cool,how amazing it is, without linking to real use cases, solving real problems forbusinesses, it becomes meaningless.

So that's why we are. Focus and ourapproach really made us today and how we actually design the product, how weinnovate and everything was because we want to solve major problems. Soproblems in cybersecurity, problems in data control, , yeah, ownership control,sustainability in all these areas of major problems the whole world is facing.

And we try to solve those problems.That's how we actually got to the stage. We are.  

Julian: Yeah, it's amazing tohear about the path to being an innovative and recognizably innovative company., you know, a lot of people would think about finding technology or buildingtechnology that's gonna be disruptive or, you know, quote unquote innovative,you know, u using that same term.

, but you've taken it from such adifferent approach, which is solving business problems, which is so. Amazingand fascinated and simple in, in the sense that, that's kind of guiding you toextract and, and be curious about other technologies that might be helpful, ,when you're going and building, you know, solutions for other companies.

, you know, a lot of companies focus ona particular, , you know, profile, client profile or customer profile totarget, but it sounds like you took a certain use case, , and, and, and sawthat use case being, , you know, relatable to other industries. Would you havebuilt or went about building it differently or for this particular technology?

, was the focus of the business solutionand the application of it in other. Did that help, , kind of guide the buildingmore so in creating a really fine tune  

Chao: product? , yeah. I, Iwould say definitely. So, , we truly, , coming from the problem based sideyeah. And understanding what the real value proposition of a solution like ablockchain based can provide.

What are the differentiators? Why youcan't just use a normal web two product, right? Yeah. In technology can solvesome of those. But we actually truly, really narrow down the, the marketrequirement and the problems they are solving and the web twos cannot solve. Sothat's where we actually adding the, you know, obviously the business acen andthen the, the product strategy into this area.

And then leverage, like if we learnfrom. We carry that to other industries because we understand those fragmenteddocentation and you know, things out of control is really not just for realestate, for everywhere. Yeah. And now we look at the Medicare or medical andthe medical why, , you know, hospitals need our product because they're worriedthat the patient, they're operating in a very insecure area.

That's why hospitals do not want to givethose docents, medical records to. It's not because they actually don't wantpatients to have them because they're worried the patient, they don't have, youknow, secure environment to manage those docents. So now really adding those twotogether and our, , , you know, solution becomes perfect.

So now adding this, , , those, , themedical capabilities, we can now port that to education, the IP design. Sobasically you can just spread around and really become system agnostic. .  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And whatin particular, talk about the traction. How many companies do you have workingwith your solution? , what are you excited about last year's growth and, andwhat are you particularly excited about this year in particular?

Chao: Yeah, so last year wasthe first year we actually launched, , docent gps. , initially was more, ,individual version. So on the Google Chrome store, people can download. Soobviously our, , you. Purpose is always is for business and enterprises, but tobe able to package up the enterprise, , type of solution, it took time.

So it was not until quarter four. Last,, year 2022, quarter four, we actually have the enterprise version ready. Thenat the start of this month, we launched the, , Microsoft version as well. Soour products now, , embedded into Microsoft Outlook. So, , people can just addthat as extension, immediately tokenized their docent attachment, the emailattachment, and from that point on, 40 protect track and then, , you know, andalso, , control people's download and share so that, , Microsoft launch.

And to treated tons of companies comingto partner with us and use our product. They roll out. So we actually, , beentruly busy this month. Every day we have enterprise onboarding. Yeah. Giving themthe, , product to use. And now, , you know, literally last three months, like Isaid earlier, and all the big, , big tech companies contact.

And also the very major assistantimplementers for Big Force. Every single company now wanting us, wanting ourtechnology. So we know we are in a very dominating, , world now. So weactually, by the end of this year, we predict we will become the very firstcompany ever achieved. A blockchain based, , enterprise solution, become amainstream.

So that's, that's incredible what'shappening in 2020, so we already could see it's happening. Yeah. Rolling out tohospitals, healthcare organization, , one of the largest legal firms like many,many legal firms. Yeah. And financial service industry, real estate, you know,all those, , governments, you know, all engaging with us as well.

Yeah. So truly see, , it's going to bea, a floodgate. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.  

Julian: It's, it progress andit's so impressive to see, you know, all the work kind of done into a really, ,a product that, that, you know, really tackles the problem and that it seemslike so many people are facing this, , within their, their businesses.

, if everything goes well, what's thelong-term vision for  

Chao: Shelters, Inc. . Solong-term vision is, , we will provide a system agnostic, , the integration andalso the mobile, right? So the, the entire ecosystem, everything's integratedas long as you put our plugin in and you can immediately protect your company'sconfidential docent or just docent in general and give you the ownership, giveyou a trackability.

So basically this will be, , achievedthrough a very, , kind of broad, , api. Then, , also the mobile app. We, , weactually now in the very last stage of Apple, , publishing. So once it's on the,, app store, we know it's going to go really, , almost like I can use the wordviral because we got so many.

It's now already contact us waiting forthis product now cause it's very, very unique and you no longer will be at, youknow, your, , like iCloud or other companies, mercy. They would know whatyou're doing this year at this time with school and what meal you'll be eating.Nothing like this will happen to you anymore.

It's completely tokenized and move awayfrom all the private, , kind of, , eyes and ShelterZoom you. From all those, ,you know, the security issue, privacy issue, and truly restore your own privacyand giving back your data ownership. So yeah, it's a very, , just really, ,changing the kind of the, , those, , you know, , dynamics but not reallydisrupting your existing workflow.

You use this, it's almost just add, add.And it's so simple. Literally, if Enterprise rolls out our technology or oursolution, they don't even feel there's any change management required, and theycan install across four, five minutes. It's,

Julian: yeah, it's sofascinating and, and that's so impressive to see where you've gotten and, andhow, , how easy it's to integrate.

I think that's where a lot of companieshave their challenges is they've got this great piece of technology. They thinkthey understand their business use case, and then the, the onboarding kind offalls and FALs. , what, what, in your mind, what in your, I guess if you'retalking to other founders, if you would give some advice, how, how would yougive the advice on how to adopt an.

You know, especially enterprisetechnology that has a lot of stakeholders that has, maybe it's a new, , newerincbent, newer in terms of the technology than the incbent, rather than a newfeature. It's kind of kind of a rip and replace type of model. How would youadvise them to go through the onboarding process to make sure it's seamless?

, and to make sure that their customersare, , you know, using the technology at its entirety.  

Chao: Mm-hmm. So I think, ,the first thing is keep it simple. You really have to keep your product simple.Keep your installation, , process simple. Keep your change management simple.Change management is really the most costly, most, , kind of like a, , frictionpoint.

Yeah. For any enterprise. So if thechange management is kept, so minim require no training, no, not nothing likedisrupted, right? So even though the technology is very disruptive, but the ,use experience is absolutely no disruption, you cannot disrupt anyone's useexperience. You want to keep that almost like the same as a existing workflow.

Yeah. So I think that is my first adviceand that will keep your onboarding, , very quick, very. So, , also the approvalprocess becomes much quicker because they know enterprise is very worried aboutchange management. If there's a big change management piece, the sales cyclecan increase to six months, nine months.

But because ours is no changemanagement, so they actually a lot of times, two weeks will close the deal. Andit could, could be the first meeting when they say, oh, wow, that's, let's go.You know, and it's really incredible. , , you know, the little changemanagement can make yourselves much faster and the onboarding much faster.

Yeah. So the other thing I would say isreally don't, , look at anything from the technical side. From the technologyside, it's truly, , looking at it from the business angle. So when you actually,, have those use cases and knowing what major problems you're solving, andregardless it's blockchain or Blockchain, whatever, ai, whatever thetechnology, as long as the technology is fit for purpose and it's future proof,and you can actually onboard people by explaining very easy just, oh, these,you know, if you don't want your, , information to be.

If you send to someone you may not trustbecause this person can share, can forward, can download your informationreshare. Yeah. And once you explain to them the use case, say, oh wow, we don'twant any, , docent leaking. Gosh, you know what happened with this company,that company and the reputational damage, the cybersecurity hack.

So they immediately get worried andreally like a wow, you know, we don't want that. Yeah. We want to use your. .So it's like a really showing them the business value and the problems you tryto solve is also bring the onboarding much faster.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. That it'sincredible to, to hear about the, the simplicity of the process, but alsosomething that, you know, maybe a lot of founders don't understand is, istrying to keep the same, , workflow for that user, which I think is that muchmore powerful than, you know, showing them that they can do something in abetter way for such creatures of habit.

That however we can use something in thesame way that we've been doing a particular task, is gonna be that much more, ,that much more I think, powerful when, when adopting new te. , I have a fewrapid fire questions for you that I'm, that I'm really excited to, to ask. ,nber one question right out, right out the gate is, , if you had more ofanything outside of time, , it could be people, it could be technology, itcould be anything, anything at all.

, outside of time, what would you likemore of?  

Chao: Oh my goodness. I lovemore my children. Yeah, because, , last five years, you know, when I was onthis, , venture journey, how do they kind of spend a lot of time with them? Soboth actually ended up in boarding schools now one's in college already. Yeah.And I just feel I missed out the teenager years, you know?

Yeah. So, which is a little bit sad. SoI wish I had more time for my children for sure.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. , if youweren't working on ShelterZoom, what would you be working on?  

Chao: I have two very major,, projects already in my mind and yeah. You know, after ShelterZoom. So one is,, we're going to, , work on the life extension technology Yeah.

And to prolong, , people's, , you know, lifespend, you know, much longer and now already have some very good ideas, , howto do that. And I just haven't really had a chance to truly do some r and d andexperiment. I just got, , some very good concept and I've never done anymedical, of course, in my, in my life.

Yeah. But I can see from, , just a, adifferent angle. Yeah. How this problem could be resolved. You know, not, notsaying people will live forever, but it could at least live long, long time. Sothat's wonderful project I'm going to after shelters. And then another one istruly. Kind of gather a lot of, , highly intellectual people in a, almost likea, a setting, very much like, , you know, the old days, , you know, thewriters, musicians, you know, those mathematician scientists all gathertogether really, , , socialize, you know, and, , do a lot of, , veryinteresting kind of experiment.

Mm-hmm. and. Discuss a lot of issues. SoI'd love to have, , something like that. And in a French Castle  

Julian: Dream. I love that.Oh, it's so specific. I, I love the, , it's like, , it's like the meeting ofthe council or the, , council of, or what's the, what's the famous one? It'snot the Council of Versa side. Is anything else on the side where they, theymet, , and discussed kind of, , , like religious docents and things like that,but it's so, yeah.

Or on the round table, if you will. It'sround table creative. Yeah.  

Chao: Yeah. But also with alot of entertainment with beautiful, , food, wine, you know, and just some,something really unique and beautiful music, you know. I love that.

Julian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.You'll have to just connect with a founder who has, you know, , a mansion.

And then we'll throw a founder's partythere, , , and, and just have a bunch of people in, in a meeting of vines. AndSounds so fun. , , another question for you is, is whether it's early in yourcareer or now, , what books or people have influenced you the most?  

Chao: Oh, , I always say myfather is the, , person who influenced me the most, and, , he's just truly a,almost like an entrepreneur gymnast.

Yeah. And the way he sees the world isso visionary. And then also he knows how to execute. And he really giving mesuch a good, , you know, like a foundation when I was growing up. He startedhis, , you know, entrepreneurship and I was really seeing how he executes sucha complex, you know, , difficult situation.

He was able to, , make everything, ,work. So it was quite, , amazing. And then, , but obviously there a lot of, ,you know, books and the, , people, , really influenced my way of thinking and Iloved the, , the book, the Gun with the Wind. Can you Believe ? It reallyinfluenced me. , just the, , seeing the, the landscape, you know, and thatactually what draw me into living in, , south part of.

Yeah. And just in a plantation occasion,those things. And because it inspires me for creativity. Sure. Lot of, , bigideas were really, , came up in the plantation and we, which I kind of feellike, , experiencing that life of, , the. Yeah. And, , then, , you know, startinventing a lot of things and putting, , concepts into this execution ofdocent, GPS docent work.

So it is a, yeah, pretty, , interestingkind of setting, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I love quirkiness because I'm overallpretty introverted in a way, you know, even. Do get a lot of interviews and Italk to people very, , naturally, but, , if I have my own time, I just really lovesome peace and, , tranquility.

And I live in a, somewhere like there'sno one around . Yeah. So I feel I truly have a lot of energy. I can draw a lotof energy from myself and to achieve, you know, , the career to a very, , youknow, kind of like somewhere I really want to go.  

Julian: Yeah. That's amazingto hear. Not only, you know, the, the how your mind works, but also, , thedifferent piece of inspiration.

And I love asking that question aboutinfluence because founders have such a diverse, , you know, background andexperience and some people are like, Business book forward. Other people aremore fiction or, or you know, bios or what have you. But everybody drawsinspiration from something else and it's, it's amazing to hear.

, I know we're at the end of the episodeand I could talk to you, you know, I think for another hour or so, , about notonly technology, but you know, the applications of it in the future of theworld. , but tell us before we go, where can we find you? Where can we be involved?Where can, what's your LinkedIn, your Twitter, , what's the website?

Where can we get involved and startusing technology? Or at least be a fan of the next generation of, of what'sgonna be built? .  

Chao: Yeah, so the easiest,, kind of to find me is on my LinkedIn. So it's Chao Cheng Shorland and theco-founder and CEO of ShelterZoom. Or you can, , contact us at the ShelterZoom., you go to the ShelterZoom.com website.

Yeah. And you can go to the contact pagefor, , as a, you know, sales says sales@shelterzoom.com or ininfo@ShelterZoom.com so those are the, , yeah, the two common, , emailaddresses you can use to contact us. And then the four, , when you go throughthe sales, obviously our sales people will reach out to you and guide you throughhow to, , use this product and how to get you on board.

Julian: Amazing. Well, cha, itwas so incredible chatting with you and not only learning about your backgroundexperience, but where your technology is going, the advancement of it, and howreally, I, I, I, I think the biggest thing I took away from this conversationis focusing on the business problems and finding solutions for them.

, you know, it kind of leads thatinnovative, , you know, brand and, and I guess overall experience that your companyhas, has been a part of. And, , thank you again for being on the show, and Ireally hope you enjoyed your.  

Chao: Yeah. Thank you somuch and you are the one of the best podcast host, you know?

Love it. I feel so happy to talk to youand feel so relaxed. Yeah.  

Julian: Amazing Chao. Thatmeans so much to me. And, and I hope to do another episode with you when you'reeither finishing up ShelterZoom or onto the next life, , life Extensionproject. , we'll have to, we'll have to talk again, but many more years.

Chao: Yeah. Have to makesure ShelterZoom works first and really focus on, then we will move to the nextone.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. I lovethat. Watch out. Thank you again. And, , we'll talk soon.  

Chao: Yeah, talk soon. Thankyou.  

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