Julian: Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining the Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have Miles Eon CEO at MBO Partners. MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and micro-business owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations.

Miles, I'm so excited to chat with you. I know you have a. A deep, deep understanding of, of business not only on a, on, on a national scale, but on a global scale. So it's even that much more exciting to chat about different trends that you're seeing in the market and where things are going. Um, but before we get into all that question about your past experience, what is globalized consulting, because it sounds like a really big, fancy term, but what are the mechanics behind creating relationships and, and consulting on a global scale and, the people that you, and companies that you've worked?

Miles: first Julian, thanks to be here for having me here with you today. looking forward to the discussion. So, look, global consulting or globalized consulting is couple things. The first and foremost is leading companies obviously are serving multiple geographic markets, and so a philosophy is that you make sure that you're there to serve your largest customers wherever they may decide to play.

And so if they wanna be in a, you know, in a certain country, you evaluate it and say, should we be there with them? And so that's our, that's our overarching strategy. But to the extent the global is different than domestic or international, as domestic means you serve one singular country.

International would mean that you have domestic businesses in multiple countries. But global is, you're connected as a delivery organization across the globe. So your customer gets much more of a. One feel that has just enough of the local cultural customization or tailoring so that it still feels good to the customers in each of the foreign countries.

So that's what global is. Yeah. Can you deliver at scale globally in a largely consistent way?

Julian: So we discussed, the thought and the idea behind globalization and um, I guess additionally kind of follow up question on that is what helps companies create that local experience?

Is it how they kind of connect resources internationally? Is it is, you talked about setting up shop kind of locally, near their. Um, is there, uh, what are the procedures to do? So I'm sure there's a lot of regulation, there's a lot of, um, curating and choreography that goes into creating kind of that experience.

How do companies kind of think about building that and what are the, the steps, , I guess less specifically, but more so if you were to kind of, you know, break it down conceptually, what are the steps to kind of creating that local.  

Miles: Yeah, so look, if, if you want to be a global company and operate globally, the first is you need to make sure that the reason you're going global is that it ties to what your customers want and need around the globe.

At least that's how I think about it. Cuz we serve the most prestigious companies in the world. So I wanna make sure wherever they want to be, that I'm there to serve them on a, a really sound basis. So, so once you know that you have customers, are gonna be there and want your services or your product.

The next is you better make sure you got a licensed to practice or to operate in that company right here in country. Yeah. Yeah. And so a big piece of that is getting all of the, the ISOs and tross in order to do it in a compliant kind of manner. But then you get to, how do you put the, the local team on the ground?

You put full-time people. Do you use independent contractors frankly, to support the local team? Yeah. And you gotta bridge or meld together if you. The principles that you stand for as a company Yeah. Are cultural norms and the how principles get applied in one country will not always be the same as how they get applied in another, because cultural norms mean different things in different countries.

Yeah. And so you need to be astute at interpreting how, you know, corporate principles or company-wide principles or mandate. Beliefs, values over whatever you wanna call 'em, how will those get interpreted in the local country? Language and norms?  

Julian: how do you know that? I guess my question is how, how do you have kind of people you're already working with on the ground?

Is there a lot of research that goes into understanding the cultural norms? How much collaboration is there outside of your organization to gather the information that you need to make sure that companies are compliant, are within the cultural norms and, and that they're their value, the values of the company are also equal.

Miles: So a lot of it is experiential. Okay. But obviously there can be research some, but I'm gonna give you a very practical example without naming a country, okay? But if you're in the United States, and one of your themes, which a lot of people have is their beliefs, values, is we want to be a trusted. Will be trusted.

Okay. In the United States, what trusted me is if you and I are in a car together and I ran a yellow light and hit another car, and the law enforcement came and said, Julian was the light yellow, and Miles went through it, you would say, yes. That means you're trustworthy and other countries trustworthy means you're trustworthy to the person that you have a friendship with.

So you would say, no, it was not. You don't really think that you're lying because you believe that you should be trustworthy and you are being trustworthy in your cultural norm. If you don't understand that as a business leader, you go into another country and you say, our, our beliefs is you should be trustworthy without understanding that little in no secrecy about it, you can end up in a lot of trouble.

Julian: Yeah. . Yeah. How, what's like a, I don't know how specific you can get, but what's like a really, an answer that was like a difficult challenge or a different way where you couldn't connect the cultural norm to the value? Or is there always kind of a way that you find around the cultural norms to, to connect those ideas?

Miles: I think, well, I would say that ultimately, at least in my experience, I've always been able to find how to make that connection. Um, I certainly had, um, lessons over the years in terms of how you create that connectivity and what you learn from, right. Again, there's some countries where when you sign a contract, you're done negotiating.

So you've negotiated, get the contracts signed in other countries. Once you've signed a contract, now the negotiation begins, right? If you don't understand that, um, you'll be the disadvantage, frankly, in the whole negoti. So you need to understand it. Yeah. So it's mostly, um, years of experience. Obviously you can read some books.

At my old firm that I used to work at, we had, um, literally a book on hundreds of countries that said how to do business in and then pick the country name. Right. And it would, it would describe those cultural norms and what to expect. By the way, it doesn't mean. One norm is good and one norm is bad.

What it means is they're different. Yeah. And so understanding and celebrating the differences in the way business gets conducted, the way people think what's normal for them is really important, not just when you're driving international or global businesses. It's important in domestic businesses. Yeah.

Taking the time to learn and appreciate where other people may be coming from is one of the most important skills of building a business for leading teams.  

Julian: Yeah. And describe the story behind MBO Ventures. How did you get involved? What kind of was antithesis? You had this long career at pwc, which for those who don't know, it's the top, you know, top four, accounting and consulting firm.

But for those who do know, what caused the transition to go from, you know, globalized consulting , and working with companies to connecting companies, internally and, and helping kind of enable the relationships and the success of enterprise companies working. smaller micro businesses as it says in the tagline.

Miles: Yeah, so, so look, my, um, my background, uh, even when I was with pwc was kind of two things that were really important. One is I was blessed with the ability to kind of see around corners or see trends before. They're obvious to most other people. Yeah. And the second is, I was in, I was more of an entrepreneur in a very large company.

Um, and so I was always kind of pushing the envelope in terms of what could we do differently? How do we get something differently done? And so it was back in, you know, the 2010, 2012 kind of era. When, uh, I was looking at our business and our consultants and, you know, how utilized our consultants were utilized being how many hours do they bill versus a client versus how many hours, um, are we paying them?

Yeah, which is very common in the service business. And I said, well, there's kind of two things. We're trying to grow a business and therefore the people I have are spending a lot of time trying to sell new business, et cetera. So they're not producing as much as a traditional consulting business who do.

That's one. The second is, , it's hard to hire all the people you need with all the deep right skills. You need full-time when you don't have the demand when you're going into a new product or area. So we had two business problems, access to talent, and the return on the investment that we were making in our existing talent.

So I said, well, there's no, nobody that ran a manufacturing footprint that had 15,000 factories would say, I'm gonna run all my factories at 70% utilization. Nobody would do that. Yeah. He said We're gonna create an operating model that allows us to solve those two problems. The problem of getting access to great, really high talent, good people, and do it at the best return on capital that I can do.

And so we said we're gonna create what's known as pwc Talent exchange. Yeah. And the talent exchange. The reason we picked the word exchange is if you think about almost every asset on the. That's valuable has been fractionalized. Mm-hmm. . Okay. When, when I say that today, people think, oh, you're talking about Uber, right?

Or you're talking about Airbnb, right? People fractionize their cars, their homes, et cetera. Well, this has been around for hundreds of years because publicly traded companies, it goes way back to the East, east Dutch Indies shipping, where they started to diversify risk by sharing shipping lights. Yeah. So, so one of, one of the things that I knew is that every great asset class gets fractionalized. And I'm not talking about just Airbnb, I'm not talking about, um, Uber, et cetera.

Those are assets that are fractionalized, but Right. If you go back to the late eighties, what got fractionalized, it's really important is that we created these things called mortgage backed securities, which fractionalized home ownership in the United States, and then it proliferated across the world when and since the late eighties, the housing market has driven the US economy.

And it did that because we fractionalized home ownership. Mm-hmm. . And so back at the turn, you know, 2010 ish kind of timeframe, I worked with a lot of national institutions. I said, look, if you talk to any CEO, and they say their most valuable asset is what they're people. So if your most valuable asset is your people, What is going to prohibit the fractionalization of human capital or what's going to enable it?

And I said, we're going to enable the fractional fractionalization of the human workday in the human career and the fractionalization of the workforce for the enterprise. That's why it's called an exchange talent exchange, right? And so we continue to see this increasing trend, right? So if you looked at the, um, years, more than a decade of primary research that MBO has done, like you can see that the, the rate of growth in independent workforce has been faster, much, much faster growth than what you see in the full-time workforce.

And it's, that trend is gonna continue for the foreseeable future. So that's what got me onto to. The question you asked, which why leave big firm, global business, et cetera to go to something else? Because I believe that the something else is the way the world is moving and it's a macro trend that's bigger than any one company.

And that's why I know is to help people realize that.  

Julian: Yeah. And, and, and in regards to the workforce and, and you know, identifying talent, what are the biggest challenges that you see companies having? Is it just finding talent and finding the amount of people? Is it the vetting of that talent? Um, , what are, what are the biggest challenges that they face?

And then once you have access to that talent, how do you then understand who's going to, you know, work well within the job function or, you know, who, who you essentially are assigning, you know, X task to, um, which a lot of companies have this whole hiring problem and finding and, and getting resources that ends up being more costly than, than it is, um, you know, beneficial.

Miles: Yeah. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna identify three key components here that I think are real important. The first is how a company defines who is their people or their workforce. And they need to open the aperture and they need to say that my workforce is any human. that can add value and get work done at my company.

It's not just my full-time employee base. So they need to define a, with a broader aperture, cuz by definition you want to have access to all the available assets as possible. So that's point number one. Yeah. Point number two is we, at least in the area where I deal, which is in the high end talent, high end being white collar workers that are college educated for the most part.

Yeah. People like to work with people they know. And there's a myth that says if somebody's an independent contractor, I don't know them as well as I know a full-time employee. I'm saying it's a myth because if you're 45 years or younger in this country, you change companies every 4.1 years. If you're under 35, you change every two or three years.

So do you really have a known this? So what we're like, what we're doing with the independence is we're saying if somebody can work two months, three months, six months, eight months, a year for a company, they'll be just as well known if not better than the full-time workforce after five or six years. So, so you take care of the No.

And then the third big point is, can I get people. that I need with the right skills. And what you find with independence, in many cases, not all, but in many cases, independence, just want to do what they're good at. Yeah. They don't wanna spend time doing other administrative, other programs that some manager thinks they should be doing.

They just want to do what they love and have passion for. Right. And so, yeah. Can I just do that? So what you get is people that are really good at what they do and they love to do it instead of generalists. And, and look. There's a place for both. I'm not saying this is either full-time or independent. I'm just saying that the role of the independent is taking on a lot more prominence in the fueling of company strategy than what it did, you know, five, 10 years ago.

Julian: Yeah, and I'm always curious, um, you, you're, I think the second or third founder who's, you know, not necessarily been the founder of the company, uh, seemed the ceo, um, you haven't necessarily been the founder of the company, but moved into this position. talk about that experience and that transition and, um, kind of for those who don't know, what is the, um, what, what is the reality of the situation?

Do you identify the different components of the business? Have you been working with MBO for a while? So you kind of are, are knowing of, of, you know, how it functions. Um, what's that transition like and how do you get everyone bought? , you know, kind of your idea and your philosophy and to continue moving the progress of the company forward.

Miles: Yeah, so, so the first is MBO and I became known to each other because MBO was the back office for the PWC talent exchange. So I was the customer mm-hmm. . Right. Got it. Yeah. And then when I, when I, when I decided to go do something different, um, I spent time with Gene. , the founder of MBO, and we first built a friendship and then we built a discussion around should we do something together.

Yeah. And um, we were fortunate because Jean invited me to join the company. I invested in the company and I became the CEO and he became the executive chairman. Very often. That doesn't work. Yeah. But he's a very gracious guy. Um. Patient and he was prepared to say, I've done a great deal of what I can do with this company.

It's time to see if we can get somebody else that might be able to do something different with it. Yeah. Um, so he was there as a con area to me, but he really gave me, the opportunity to come in and immediately from day one start to put a sense of direction that says, we're gonna turn this into a higher growth company.

We're gonna convert from being a services company to be a product company. And he was supportive of it. Most people that come in as the second CEO behind the founder don't have that luxury or gift. Yeah, right. And, and so that's a big part of it, you know, part of that's. Part of it's also the diligence that Gina and I did on each other to say, could we work with this person?

And so then once you kind of get that, then it's, it's getting focused on what are the principles that I believe make us successful. So at NBO we have a set of beliefs, because beliefs lead to behaviors. Behaviors lead to culture. A lot of companies say, here's our culture. So they define the culture they want.

but if you don't actually get the belief system down, you'll never get the culture because the culture is an out outcome of beliefs and behaviors. And that's point number one. Yeah. So we nailed those. The second thing is we said, here's the 10 principles of success. Mostly principles of success that I have from my, that came from my experience.

People might agree with them, they might. But the reality is, if you're at MBO, these are the things that we believe make us successful, make anybody successful in business. So can we agree that as we look at our company and we look at our interactions and behaviors with one another, we're going to apply those principles.

The beliefs and the principles of success. And the answer is we did that. Um, we review those every week with the entire, you know, company when we do an all hands. So there's a lot of interaction between me and everybody in the company. Um, some days that's probably good and some days it's probably bad on balance, it's better, it's more good than bad.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Um, you, you said you, you, I love this idea. I want to dive into this concept a little bit. Moving from a service company to a, to a product company. What does that mean? Are you introducing technology to kind of build a product? Are you just changing the me the messaging? Are you changing how you service your clients?

What goes into the transition from service to product? Um, uh, transition the company from a service company to a product company. .  

Miles: Yeah. So the primary thing is how you philosophically think about the way the customer is going to consume the value they desire. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And so somebody can say, um, I want to be able to contract a thousand independent contractors each year.

And you can do that through service being a lot of human intervention and high touch in it. Yeah. When you go more towards a product company, A lot of the things that would've gotten done by human get done, by technology, by data, by algorithms, and as long as the experience or speed is, which is part of experience, the delightfulness, if you will, for the end customer at this.

better you win. But what it requires you to do as a company is to say, well, gee, in the past we would've just had somebody call or email or do this. But now what we're gonna do is we're gonna have, you know, I'm getting very simple in my example, I'm gonna have a chatbot that gives an immediate response, right?

So it's all about the experience and reducing the. that is involved in the legacy operating model that that industry has operated in. That's what we do. Yeah. We take down friction and we enhance the experience. We therefore become more relevant to the customer. If you become more relevant to the customer, you're gonna win the day.

And in our case, we're doing it in a way that we're also less expensive than the way the traditional model of the industry is. . Yeah. Yeah. So it's a little faster, better, cheaper. Can I get you what you really want? Faster, better, cheaper than what you're used to doing. If you can do that, then you win.  

Julian: Yeah. I, I love, I love the, the philosophical standpoint, but also it makes sense mechanically on, on, it's almost like you, you work a process manually until you can automate it, and then as you create these little automations and this refined process, The experience becomes very consistent. And in that they, they kind of, like you said, get it, you know, better, faster, and cheaper.

Um, tell us a little bit about MBO now. Where, who are you working with? What are some of the, the, the key metrics that you're excited about in terms of growth? And um, and then where are you leading into in, in the new year now that we kind of have a fresh, I don't know about a fresh start, but, but a continued, some, you know, continued lifeline.  

Miles: Yeah. So look, I think it's always good to kind of step back and reflect and respond. So a fresh start, I'm entirely fine with, right? Cause rarely are things truly just a fresh start from ground zero, but rarely is. Things just continue the same old thing for an extended period of time.

You gotta constantly reevaluate. So one of the things we talk about is the rate of change is accelerating, and because the rate of change is accelerating, your ability to self-reflect and adapt also has to be in more confined durations, if you will. You gotta do it much, much more often than use. Uh, and so for 2023, you know, we're excited about the fact that there is such a increasing amount of independence in terms of people that are choosing to be independent.

Um, and at the same time, you know, just in the United States alone, we know there's twice as many job openings as there are people that are unemployed in this country. So we have, as a society, we have a, despite all AI, automation, everything else, all the fear that we're gonna eliminate, everybody's. We have a human capital scarcity issue, not an abundance of human capital.

And so what we're doing is we're helping people who are really good at the skill, what they want to do, the impact they want to have. We're helping them get matched with companies that are trying to find human capital in a human capital scarce environment. So that's kind of cool and it's fun to make that happen, right?

Like. If, if you don't believe in what you're doing, you should probably have to go find something else. But hopefully from our conversation, like, I'm really jazzed about what we're doing at nbo. Um, yeah. And we just continue to go after, you know, trying to make that happen with reducing this friction that I'm referring to in the system.

There's lots of points of friction in an individual trying to work the big company.  

Julian: And what are some of the biggest challenges that MBO faces today?  

Miles: Um, so certainly one of the big, biggest challenges is, um, and so, so when I think of the biggest challenges that we have in 2023 is how fast can we actually reduce the friction that exists in the system? Right. I'll give you an example. I can't control how fast a government entity as a background check. So it tells me how long somebody's lived in the address, or it tells me that their background checked.

It can take two weeks. We're working on. Figure out how we can flex that time. Because if you want talent on demand, like I want 'em now, I want like immediately to, if you're not working with, with the governmental offices to figure out a solution that can, can work around that, you're never gonna solve that problem.

So we're solving that correct. Um, and for the independent, what independence want for the most part, is they wanna know where their next project's coming from. How are they gonna make their livelihood for the next 12 months? So we're incre. We increasingly increased demand from our enterprise clients by having them post what their needs are for whether it's a project or an individual.

Job rec in our, in our proprietary clouds and talent clouds so that then our talent can say, oh, cool. I see that company abc, which is a big name needs, has this need so they get constructed. Right. And so, right. You know, putting two different parties together so that they can both get positive outcome is what is obviously what we like to do.

And so for 23 it's more that, and it's adding more and more product features to make that frustration. Yeah.  

Julian: Yeah. If everything goes well uh, what's the long-term vision for MBO ?  

Miles: If everything goes well, we will be sitting here running probably the largest white collar workforce in the United States or in the world.

Um, and we won't own any of the talent, none of our employees of ours, full-time employees, but we're facilitating the ability for those people to do the work they love the way they want, and we're facilitating enterprises to. Access to the talent they need when they want it on demand so that they can run a highly profitable wealth creating company.

And yeah, we'll just keep doing that. And I'll put it this way, if you do that, the rest will be, you know, history.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. I always like to ask, ask this question, there's a little bit of a curve ball, but if you wanna work on MBO, what would you be doing?  

Miles: I would be doing, right now I would probably be doing something and I don't know precisely what, but in the area of longevity mm-hmm.

so one of my hobbies, if you will, I have a keen interest in health and longevity and mostly because I just see that the innovation in that arena is just exploding in a positive way. . Yeah. And you know, I'm, and it ties to the work because, if you're 20 years old in the United States today, you know, you'll probably be working.

If you're a white collar worker, you'll work well into your eighties. Yeah. Um, but you'll get to have 4, 5, 6, 10 different careers you'll be good at. Um, it's possible. By the way, I would be working and learning, because I do believe. , one of the best ways to have a long, fulfilling life and therefore career is to be healthy and to be a consummate curious learner.

Um, yeah, so that if I wasn't doing something specific, I'd be learning something new and then I'd go do. I'm not very good at that. Still.  

Julian: Yeah. . Yeah. . I could tell. Um, I, I, you know, this is a more recent question that has popped up. Um, but what, what, do you have any hacks for time management, uh, anything that you've used or that you've successfully done structurally in your day-to-day?

Because I hear from founders time to time again, the one thing that they would want more is more time in their day, um, or more energy to, to complete the tasks that they do. But what advice would you give.  

Miles: Yeah, so, so you just hit on it. My first key point, which is, for me, I focus much more on what is happening with my energy than I do the amount of time.

Mm-hmm. I'm spending because I can get a lot more done and less time if I'm, my energy is in the right place. Right? Yeah. So, I have routines, you know, I have morning routines, um, I have routines about how I think about what's in front of me and I'm maniacal about getting off my plate. What's not important to me.

Yeah. Okay. So I don't let other people dictate my schedule. And so, and, and my energy thing is some people think that that means all you do is you deal with the fun stuff.

Some people think you deal with the fun stuff, which you, you do, but you have to deal with the stuff that's difficult and you don't want to deal with. Yeah. Because if you don't, it's, it's. Just completely zaps your energy cuz you think about it, you haven't solved it.

Yeah. So you have to do, I describe it this way, sometimes you have to do, be willing to do what is necessary, not just do what you want. Yeah. Right. And knowing what's necessary and how that will recharge your energy to go do what you want to do is really important. Yeah. And that's one of my key disciplines is, you know, do what's necessary so I get, I have more energy to do what I want.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, the prioritizing in the day-to-day , is tough because, you know, there's a lot of going on and a lot of movement happening. But I guess what, how do you reflect on that? Do you kind of take a step back? Do you journal what's the, what's the process to know what's fun and what's not fun?

What's giving you energy, what's not.  

Miles: Yeah, so I do, I do some journaling. I should be doing more than I do is what I would say. Cuz whenever I do it, I do think it helps me reflect on that. Yeah. Um, but I do get energy out of relationships and so at a minimum every day I reach out to five people directly that I wouldn't have to for the business of the day.

sounds really simple. You know, five a day, 35 a week, 35 a week, like catch up over the years. And that's how you build a massively big network of people. Yeah. That can count on you and that you can count on. And that's discipline though. It's huge discipline to say, okay, did I get to the five today?

I'm not talking about reaching out to somebody cuz you're work negotiating a deal I'm talking about. You have no reason to do it with them today. You reach out to 'em on a personal. , right? Yeah. So that's, that's one. And then the other is just, being really disciplined about my, what I eat and my exercise routines.

Yeah, the amount of energy you can get from proper exercise and nutrition is off the charts. And obviously, of course, the thing that a lot of entrepreneurs overlook. It's getting right amount of sleep. .  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah.  

Miles: I know I was that way for a long time.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's, um, it, it's so fascinating that you know that as founders become more and more mature in their career and their experience, they echo a lot of the things that you're saying, which is focusing on their energy, on balancing the amount of exercise, exercise almost becomes a job, or even like the mental health and physical health of. You know, your experience becomes almost like a second job. It's like, it is as important, if not equally, or more important, than the day-to-day task because then it, it kind of, you know, compounds on itself and facilitates all the, um, ability to, to actually complete what you need to.

Miles: The other thing I do is I get outside. Usually it's for, you know, a few hours a day, but I don't care what day it is. I get outside at least 10 or 15 minutes in the morning because there's something out the fresh air. Even on a cloudy day, if the sun's not shining, being out 10 or 15 minutes gives me energy that I don't get if I stay inside.

Julian: Yeah. That's a really, that's a really good point. Um, I know we're, we're close to the end of the episode here. And I'd love to ask this question, not only for our audience, but also for selfish research on my end, um, whether it was earlier in a career or not, uh, or now, Uh, what books do people have influenced you the most?

Miles: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, so there's a book, but I'm gonna comment about a person as well. there's, cuz there's a number of books written by the Gallup organization. . Mm-hmm. . So there's strength finders, there's business builders, et cetera. But I had, early in my career, I had the good fortune of meeting with Don Clifton, who was the founder of Select Research Institute, who bought the gala organization, and I was doing a consulting project for him.

But Don told me, he said, miles, one of the best things you can do is listen to what the dialogue is that's going on and reverse the questions that are being asked. And you'll learn so much and you'll find new opportunities that other people won't find. And of course I'm like, so do you have an example of what you're thinking about

He's also known as the positive, the father of positivity, psychology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's, here's a simple one. Miles. Every company does exit interviews of people who are leaving. You shouldn't ask people who are leaving why they left. You should ask the people who are staying, why they stayed. Yeah. They say you wanna know where they stayed instead of why they left.

Julian: Great end to that . Yeah. It's so fascinating. I love the reverse question, um, because I don't think it's done enough to understand, um, not only the opposite of what's being asked, but also the reason behind the question. Because understanding the reason, sometimes it's a little bit more insightful for what somebody's actually caring to understand or know, um, which I find myself needing to do a little bit more and more.

And, and so I'm, I'm definitely gonna look up in that Gallup organization and see the different, um, philosophies and comments and strategies that they use. But I always like to give my guests a, a chance to give us your, your plugs at the end of the episode. You know, your LinkedIns, your websites, um, your Twitters, where, where can we find you?

Where can we be involved in MBO and, and excited about, um, where the company's going?  

Miles: Yeah, well, look, you, you can find me in any social media platform by just typing in my name in the search engine because Miles Everson is not exactly a common name, right? And so I'm on all the major social media.

Obviously we're at mbopartners.com, you know, and everything that we have is there. Um, and then, you know, the other thing I would just add, which you really didn't ask for, but I'm doing work on right now, is developing much more of a platform and, you know, lead thinking around, um, what I'm referring to is the independent mind.

Mm-hmm. . And the question is, how do independent minded people think and become successful? Because I think increasingly people have a desire to trust themselves more than to trust other people. But how do you do? Yeah. How do you do that effectively? Yeah. And so that's some of the work that you'll see. I publish a what's called Business Builder Daily.

You can see it on mbopartners.com. Um, and every Friday I do a mindfulness by Friday or mindfulness by Miles that talks about some of these things around health and how you think about being independent in your mind.  

Julian: I love that and, and, uh, it's cool's an invite. I, yeah. Yeah. If there's an invite to, to a live session, I'd love to, to be a part of it one day.

Miles: Sounds well,  

Julian: miles. Yeah. It's been such a pleasure. I hope you enjoyed yourself. And I guess last question is, is there anything I didn't ask you that I should have outside of the, uh, the mind builders?  

Miles: I, I think I just answered it. I wanted to make sure that we talk about it. Cause the independent mind, I mean, I, I really encourage people to, um, define themselves and don't let other people define who you are.

Julian: So I love that. And Miles, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you and I'm doing around two of, of all my, uh, all my interviews once I hit 200 episodes. So I'd love to reengage and chat deeper. Uh, any specific topic, but I hope you enjoyed yourself and thank you again for joining the show.  

Miles: I did. Thank you so much, Julian. All the best.