Julian: Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining the Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have Olivia Pedersen, CEO of Sustaio. Sustaio, empowers people to live climate smarter by incentivizing emissions, reducing behavior. Olivia, I'm so excited to chat with you. As we, we were discussing before the show, anyone in Within the Climate and sustainability space. It's always fascinating to talk to because it's such, you know, I think a newer, but even more and more progressively necessary space for a lot of companies and people to be invested in. And and I know someone like myself who loves to make, you know, or tries to make at least climate friendly decisions or you know, sustainability kind of affords decisions.

Always likes to know more ways that I think, you know, I can, you know, impact in a positive way. My behaviors to the overall kind of you know, I guess. Movement that everybody should be going into. So, but before we get into all the good stuff with Estillo describe the Walmart effect. You mentioned this in the notes that you sent ahead of time. Describe the Walmart effect and how it kind of clicked off your climate crusade.  

Olivia: Yeah. It was just a book. It was a book written. In the nineties, I think, and then I read it in the two thousands early two thousands. And it was just one of those books that just showed how the world was working post-industrial revolution, how interconnected everything is, and how, you know, it really just described a Spotify effect going on that, you know, exists even, you know, tenfold as it did before when the book was written.

And ultimately what just caught my attention about it is just that, you know, like I just said, the interconnectivity of everything and how one action over here will play out over there. And ultimately that's how Carbon works just on a, you know, a cycle within the atmosphere. And so that, that's really what sparked this all.

And that was when I was about 18. I read that book or something like that right after I graduated high school. And. Since then, like I, I come from art and design and I was a designer before I was at starting . And it was really like, how do I, that was basically the seed that was planted. That was like, how do I use design as a means to be a change agent within sustainability and climate action.

Julian: Yeah. And what inspired the idea behind to kind of focus on an incentive-based model to help people, you know, promote or promote people's, you know, positive behaviors toward climate, and what are those behaviors? I think that's one thing is we all think we make climate friendly decisions, but what decisions can we make better?

Olivia: Yeah. So I, you know, for about 10 years was in the athletic and outdoor industry, working as a designer from small, large corpor. and I really just got frustrated by the inherent negative impact that the outdoor athletic industry was having on the world, ironically. So I left and went back to school to get my master's in sustainable design, and then it was through my thesis research that I really became obsessed with what's my personal footprint?

How do I make sustainable choices throughout my everyday? And how does that become an you know, a subconscious decision, a subconscious choice, much. You know, how we choose different brands in other categories of our life, or the example I like to use the most is, you know, how can we make people aware of their carbon actions or their climate, whether it's their carbon or their water, or their pollution and waste.

How do we make them able to determine what's gonna. Climate smarter decision based off of the same way that we can look at a gallon of milk and know, hey, that's gonna be anywhere from, you know, two to five, five or $6, depending on what type of brand I buy.  

Julian: Yeah. And what goes into the, I guess, consideration when thinking about companies or choosing brands that are making a positive?

Say impact, you know, because I was talking to another founder and there's this whole I can't remember, where you essentially buy like carbon credits from other companies that are doing more positive actions and you can buy those credits and maybe negate some of the negative implications that your product has or service has.

What goes into the consideration of choosing a brand that it's climate friendly or at least, you know, working towards more friendly behaviors you know, for their. .  

Olivia: Yeah. And I think to back up first before getting into the choice of where am I consuming, it's first a choice of like, how much am I consuming?

What am I consuming? . Yeah. There's a really tough balance with living a more sustainable life, especially from the place where we're coming from. You know, like consume more excess by cheap, by in quantity, not quality. So, It's really like switching that mindset of more is less or more? More. Less is. More. Less is more, yeah. Is what I'm gonna say. Yeah. Less is more. And you know, like consumers have a lot of power within their demand, and so if you don't like a company and the way that they're acting, don't purchase with 'em. And that, that is the biggest control that we have as consumers. What do we spend our dollars on?

And that's the most powerful statement. So, you know, these company, you know, fashion is my favorite example because it's one of those where consumers get really mad about companies in fast fashion, and it's like, well, and stop buying clothes every month, every week. You're supporting that trend. So that's really where I wanted to start.

And then, you know, once you do, okay, am I consuming appropriately to my needs? You know, not sacrificing quality of life. Yeah. Cause nobody wants to sit in a cold, dark box and drink warm beer. It's more about, you know, how do I actually live well and also be responsible for my emissions and water that I'm consuming.

So when looking at companies, an easy thing to do that's pretty low bandwidth is looking for the certifications they have. These are good signals, you know, B Corp other certifications that are out there, but ultimately that's like an easy checkbox. But ultimately a lot of new companies might not have the resources to get those things or just might not make sense to get those things.

And a really good example of this that's more evolved. U S D A organic, like a lot of small farms do not have the means to get that cert. Does that mean that their practices are not organic? No, but they might even be better than the U S D A CERT framework. But that's when you have to kind of have to go step deeper is like, okay, don't see a cert, but that doesn't mean they're not sustainable.

Like what am I seeing on their, about page? Yeah. What commitments are they making publicly? And I think that's the boldest thing companies can. Cause once you go public, you like can't go back, you know, , you'll either have a PR nightmare in the hands or you'll just ruin your brand values. So, companies that are managing their emissions, managing their water, treating their people well, treating the stakeholders beyond their employees, and really running their business like You know, with more than just a bo a bottom line with the triple bottom line Yeah. Of people, planet, profit and beyond. You know, and you know, now a lot of people are talking about regeneration. So not only is my business sustainable, but it's actually capturing more carbon than it's submitting or you know, Toms is a great example from back in the day where buy one good one.

That was a super innovative and evolutionary business model that came out. . There's just a lot of signals you can look at. And consumers are really smart today. They can see through the BS of things. So, like on Instagram you'll see ads that are like, these jeans are great, they're really sustainable and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And it's like, how are they sustainable? just being aware of the hot words and then be like, cool. They said a hot word. How do they back up that hot word? Like what does sustainable mean to this company? Because it's such a lot, it's such a, It's such a complex word and there is a standard definition for it, but how does that brand internalize sustainability or regeneration and output it into the world to make their impact better.  

Julian: Yeah. And as from SEO's I guess, perspective, how do you kind of filter through the companies and kind of, know which companies are backing up those hot words? Is, are they self-report? Do companies self-report the things that they're doing, say on their website or through.

I don't know, some repository or database. Are they getting certified? I know you mentioned U S D A organic certified, you know, that's something that, you know, is a standard. How are companies reporting the positive or impactful things that they're doing in terms of, you know, sustainability or climate or emissions and how do you siphon through that information?

Olivia: Yeah. So most companies are under voluntary self-reporting today, which is really like, that's really cool. It's not mandatory. The s e c is coming down with regulations soon, but they're not mandatory yet. So yeah, you can look at company's websites and usually at the bottom footer or hopefully in the top footer.

They have their sustainability initiatives or their ESG initiatives, their environmental social governance initiatives or that you can ult, they ultimately publicly disclose their annual report that will go into what they did within their ESG framework, got how much emissions they saved, et cetera. And so, yeah, that, that's the biggest way that we look at that.

And just overall brand expression on a website and. looking at who runs the company and how they express themselves on LinkedIn and what's their values and are their values aligned with what the brand's saying? Because if they're not, then there's obviously a mis a miss or a disconnect going on there where they're saying one thing, but the leadership of the company doesn't actually back that up.

So, . Yeah. There's so many ways to just like vet companies. It's awesome these days.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned about back to brand awareness and, you know, being consumers, being not even just curious, but more aware. I, you know, there's like the recent thing with Balenciaga and people on TikTok kind of threw a flame thrower at them.

But I think for me it's exciting because knowing more about the brands I'm consuming I feel more attached to the things I'm purchasing and. How do you kind of build in that attachment or that behavior for companies and organizations rather than for individuals? I know you target a few different kind of, what would you say cu not customer profiles, but I guess archetypes of people, the word's slipping me right now, but how do you create that kind of attachment to the behavior for companies as well?

Outside of individuals, which I think we have a lot more maybe emotional or intentional attachment to the decisions we make. But how do you do so so for incentivizing companies?  

Olivia: Yeah. So I think it's about we approach. and I guess expect different things that accompanies than is the standard in terms of like how we think of the system of a corporation.

Since the Industrial Revolution, businesses have been treated like non-human entities. It's, you know, it's the company, it's for the profit or whatever it is, you know? Yeah. Companies have been, compartmentalized to not be directly related to the people that run it, work in it, et cetera. And so I think we need to, you know, treat companies like human entities and human systems, cuz that's exactly what they are built up of.

Human emotions, values, yeah. Ethics, personal choices and preferences. And so, you really do see that a lot of that happening nowadays where you know, within HR departments a really strong. Values and ethics statement is put out there. Yeah. But ultimately, I think that's the biggest thing is starting to realize that the ethos of your employees will be directly related to the business decisions that get made for the company.

Yeah. And if your employees understand why sustainability is important and necessary to mitigating climate change, then they will care about the choices they make and how those choices affect climate change.  

Julian: Yeah. You know, shifting it in terms of, you know, coming at it from, as a founder going and, you know, acquiring more customers and thinking about the customer acquisition funnel, especially for sustainability, I feel like I, I have no experience with doing so.

I don't run a company that, that focuses in that. And so how do you tackle, you know, acquiring customers and, and I guess building the trust and building. Behaviors to help them kind of not only engage with your platform, but also to make those decisions and make those a habit of reporting and getting those incentives.

What have been some of the challenges in kind of creating like customer retention around a new innovative space that's really kind of growing now?  

Olivia: Yeah. It's been a, honestly, like 2022 was a hard year for that It was a like, kind of a rollercoaster in terms of what was going on in the climate space.

Like, you know, once the inflation reduction act got put into place, everything kind of switched and once the s E C released their disclosures that they might be implementing on greenhouse gas emission reporting for companies, that kind of shifted things too. , but then the turn of, you know, and these spheres of a recession is coming down the line.

So the first half of like these great policies got put into place and the second half is over. No, it's a recession. Everybody needs to cut down budget, cut down work workforce. And so it's, you know, what are the first things that go when you need to cut budget? And that could be your ESG department.

Yeah. And so it's really kind of been a rollercoaster, right. Because what's really important about working within the climate space is making the basis case, like why we need to think with more long-term. Yeah. Frameworks in place, you know, ev everything's pretty short-term thinking right now, but, , the more sustainable choice is usually the more cost effective choice in the long run.

But we, you know, right now we look at scales of one to five years when we should really be looking at scales of, you know, five to 10 years. But that's really hard because you have to make a profit to make a, you know, to have the budgets to implement an ESG department. So it, it's just like most businesses I think at chicken out are the egg game.

And so it's just a balancing act. You know, with government in the seed and we're in the hat of, you know, with the majority of the government, we're in the hat of, you know, climate change is something we need to actively, you know, work towards managing and mitigating that helps a ton.

Whereas before, with the previous government, it was not the case and it was really oh, I wonder where this will actually go.  

Julian: Yeah, . Yeah, no amazing to just see that there's more of a. I organized push towards just building better habits for not only corporations, but individuals.

And I think, you know, it should hopefully, you know, we'll see compounding effects of it. And I'm excited for, you know, the more programs that are incentivizing. So describe a little bit if you could, the technology and the user experience. If I, as an individual or as a corporation, we're going to Sustaio and start kind of using the platform and what incentives should I expect?

You know, if I'm working and. Better or I guess having better climate friendly behaviors?  

Olivia: Yeah, so at Sustaio we are currently working on the next generation of a platform where ultimately you as a consumer can get rewarded for reducing your carbon and water footprint with direct monetary incentives.

So that's about all I can say about that right now. But we're really excited about what's coming on the line, but just to kind of nerd out on. What you can do as an individual to reduce your footprint. There's just, you know, there's so many different facets of life and so we, at , we really draw the boundary about what is the everyday actions a one individual takes and how can we reduce or make those actions more efficient, more climate smart.

So, you know, like household energy is a huge area of that. And just simply, and it's really simple things that some of us just don't have strong habits built around. So, you know, and it's nothing new, it's nothing we haven't heard before. It's turning off light switches making sure your water pressure is not excessive or you know, over indulgent.

So that just means like putting aerators on your faucet dialing down your thermo sta a little bit. And it doesn't take, you know, we kind of have this mantra and stay where it's like little changes make a big difference and it's. Decreasing your thermostat by two degrees in hotter pull times makes a massive difference.

Yeah. Not only in your energy bill, but in the kilowatt hours that then directly have your emissions factors related to it. So it's really the small things. It's checking your tire pressure so you get better fuel economy. It's making sure your laundry load is full if you don't have a, he you know, washing appliance, which most of us do nowadays.

It's putting your clothes on a line dryer instead of using the dryer in the summer, because why not use the sun to drag your clothes instead of, you know, a machine and then hey, that gets you outside for five minutes to hang your clothes. You know? So there's just like, it's like how do I improve the quality of life by taking more sustainable actions and being more intentional in those moments because there's other health benefits doing those things.

Yeah. And then what else? You know, like, there's just so many things. There's so many ways, especially within fashion, to just buy recycled clothing. Upsell up, up, made clothing that then gets you know, back into the hands of consumers instead of going to landfills. And then ultimately with waste it's really hard to get a away from packaging waste, especially in the, this day and age.

But you. . I remember my friend once asked me like, how do, like, I want a more sustainable trash bag. Like what's a good sustainable trash bag? And I was like, well, what you really need to worry about in that situation is putting less trash in the bag. Yeah. That's ultimately what the biggest emitter is there.

But it's hard to juggle carbon and sometimes one action that's really easy for you to do doesn't have that big of a, you know, carbon impact. In comparison to like taking one less flight a year. , like little things can add up and if, hey, I can't take less flights, but I can totally you know, be more efficient by managing my household energy better, which has a really dirty fuel mix or a really dirty grid mix cuz my county still runs off coal or whatever it is.

There's really good ways to counterbalance the places in your life. Yeah. That you just simply can't cut your emissions. .  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Shifting focus in terms of like growing and scaling you know, the company and especially within the industry that you're in, what are some of the challenges that you've seen, you know, with raising funding or getting people on board to, you know, get behind the mission and the goal of the company and honestly, You know, getting behind the building of a technology that I think a lot of people can benefit from.

And which is kind of a different model where it's typically the company kind of scales and grows and, you know, has this huge exit or maybe goes through an acquisition. How has it been? Kind of, yeah, kind of having conversations around funding and building a technology that's I think, a little bit more holistic than other companies as they.

Olivia: Yeah, it's been really tough because we are a new type of product that doesn't exist in a new type of market that is very young. . And we're early to mar like, we're very early to market with our product. Yeah. So it's been a threefold. And we're a b2, B2C company, , so it's, there's many different factors that make this a very challenging business.

But that's just what I got obsessed with through my masters. It's like, how do we change behavior? Yeah. And, you know, how do we change behavior to be more climate smarter? You do that with incentives. Okay. How do we get people incentives? So it's just been this huge puzzle piece that's been a lot of fun to put together.

the money is definitely out there in terms of the funding landscape. Yeah. You just have to find the people who are really willing to take an early bet on climate mitigation software and technology. So it, you know, it's been hard, simple to say, and I think a lot of people think traction happens really fast, but not for us.

Objection has not happened really fast and we're getting closer and closer every day. Yeah, but that's like the honest truth about  

Julian: it.  

Yeah. As a founder I like to ask this question. How do you kind of stay, you know, motivated or stay kind of, I guess energized every day to, to can you continue tackling the problem?

I think, you know, there's a fantasy around the level of energy that a founder has and that is unlimited if you love the product or time. But honestly, we're all human. And it all kind of takes a toll and we need to recharge. And I guess, yeah. How do you kind of manage the ups and downs of being a founder?

Olivia: Yeah. I think the first thing is like, I love where I live and I've always been really intentional about where I live. Yeah. Cuz the day-to-day is like the most important part. Like if you don't love. What you're doing if you, I don't know, I'm this is an unpopular opinion, but I'm not about the weekend warrior vibe.

you know, where, I don't know me neither. You should love where you live. And so that's one thing, like I walk outside and then I'm surrounded by the people and type of ecosystem that I love. And then I don't know, like sometimes you're just really down on your business and you're like, what am I doing here?

And I think that rollercoaster is normal for everyone. . But I think it's like what I've done that has really helped me has been like, you know what? I'm not really excited about this right now, but I love being, you know, an entrepreneur. I love being my own boss. Yeah. Before this I had another, I had a design firm, so like, you know, I'm, I think I am somebody who will be a serial entrepreneur and continue to just start my own companies and it.

give us another six months and see what happens. Yeah. Like you're already here. Like, you know, you could spend six months looking for a job if you just give up and quit right now. So like, yeah, give it another six months. See what happens. Yeah. And then every time I've done that, once I get to that six month mark, I'm like, give it another six months.

like, look at all the things that you've made, like just give us six more months. Yeah. And that's kind of how my 2022 went. And I'm so glad I didn't like throw in medal yet cause I'm just so, like, I've gotten to a point where we've made this huge breakthrough in the business and I'm so excited about what's about to happen in this next year that I'm so glad I didn't give up when it was really dark.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of founders echo that same point. It's like right when it's the bleakest is when you know the results that you've been hoping for working towards will actually, you know, kind of present themselves and illuminate and then it becomes a new kind of challenge that's ahead of you in a new kind of exciting journey or chapter to it.

What, as a founder, what are you better at now that you maybe weren't so good at before when you first kind of, started your entrepreneurial journey?  

Olivia: Yeah, so like I come from the world of design where you just kind of have to have a thick skin and not think, take things personal. Cause like the course of your business is always having your work critique to make it better or meet the client's needs or whatever.

So I was like, I thought I had a pretty thick skin, but now like, it's not like I'm still don't get down about things, but now it's like just trying not to take things personal. Like it's hard as a founder because like, it's literally like, a culmination of who you are and what you're embodying and you're putting it into a product.

But at the end of the day, like people, like whether or not your business succeeds, like measuring yourself, work on worth on how successful your business is, it does not, yeah. Trans, like those are not interrelated. So I think that's one thing, but yeah, I kind of forgot the question and I'm rambling,  

Julian: but no, that's it was, the question was what are you better at now that maybe you weren't so good at as a found early on?

Olivia: Yeah. So, yeah, I think just like, like every time there's a fire it's like, cool, how are we gonna fix it? So just like getting, just getting better at rolling with the punches and I was like, great. This might have totally like stopped gated us. It's like, nope, we'll figure it out, . So this is like trying to stay as positive as possible and it's like the world's not ending, it just kind of feels like it this very moment. So just being able to rebound a lot quicker.  

Julian: Yeah. I love that point you made about not attaching your self worth to the success of the business. And I think that's something a lot of founders, you know, learn with experience and some something advice I was given early on. Didn't take in the moment I got it, which I wish I did.

But it's just kind of, you know, detaching yourself from that and creating it as in a project and working on this. And you know, the goal of it is kind of bigger than your overall, you know, I guess, I don't wanna say ego cause I think it's a little bit harsh of a term, but you know, your overall, like you said self-worth.

Going back to eo what are some of the biggest challenges that Sustaio faces today?  

Olivia: I think just getting to that 100% product market fit is our biggest challenge today. The thing with what we're like, what we're doing is such a tricky product and it's, yeah, like I said, it's, we're an early product and an early market and so those are our biggest challenges right now. , but like I said, the government's in our favor as of right now.

And there's so many things that happened over the past year that have really just continued to, you know, open people's eyes to the effects of climate change firsthand. So, yeah. Yeah. I think you know this, we just gotta get our next generation where our product live and we're on a tight timeline and.

Yeah, that, that's it. Just making sure we don't, we keep the midnight all burning pretty much is  

Julian: Yeah. What it is. Yeah. If everything goes though, what's the long-term vision for Sustaio? .  

Olivia: Yeah. So, you know, the reason why I started this company is cause I wanted a, an accurate read on how is my sustainability score based off of my actions this last week?

How do I know if I'm progressing, if I don't have the data to back it up? So ultimately, while we're building up Sustaio and with the Sustaio score, you know, we're building the standard for how consumers can know how they're doing income to their climate impact and utilize that to be. a you know, better climate steward and ultimately reap the rewards of doing that.

So one day I see Sustaio being able to unlock better pricing for individuals on their home loan. On better financing for buying in house on their insurance, cuz insurers bear the biggest burdens with climate change. So I'm really excited to, you know, I often relate, Sustaio, you know, the stay score to a FICO for sustainability.

And that's really what we're doing. We're democratizing how you can manage your climate impact and your carbon to get to elevate your quality of life much gaining debt does. Yeah. And did you know that really changed the tables for a lot of people before. There wasn't a way to use debt to better your quality of life.

And debt is a tool that we use every day to make sure that we have everything we want or need in life. So that's really like the long term vision is. doing what the FCO did with debt to what we are doing with climate management and rewarding to ultimately unlock those better deals for people in the long run with their financing.

Julian: Amazing. And I would like to ask this next question you know, not only for our audience, but also for selfish research purposes but whether it was early on or now outside of the Walmart effect what books or people have influenced you the most?

Olivia: Natural capitalism, I think is an amazing book that is, is super powerful. And they just released a new addition a couple years ago. And it really talks about what we're seeing a lot of in the markets today of X as a service. So , dishwasher as a service, phone as a service, food as a service instead of keeping ownership over things like, do we really need to own the car we drive every day, or the house?

You know? So it really like changed. my type of thinking on ownership versus service. So that's a really good one. I love Cradle to Cradle too. That's a regenerative model that is kind of turning things on its head right now. And then . Yeah, I think those two, I could like list books all day, but I think those two are really strong  

Julian: to start with.  

I love that. I love that. And I, I sometimes ask this question and I'd love to ask you this. Is there anything I didn't ask you or that you would've liked to answer?  

Olivia: I guess No I don't think so. But my, I'm curious, since you've talked to so many of us, what's like the biggest repeating theme you see with talking to founders these days?  

Julian: Ooh, that's a good question. I mean, the biggest themes are. A lot of what you talked about in terms of, you know, going through the motions and the challenges and kind of a perspective and mindset and, you know, a lot of that is repeating.

And also the personality types or I guess the individual qualities that founders have are kind of repeating the determination, grit. Somebody coined naivete to me the other day. Yeah, . For sure. So, yeah. Yeah. And and then also in terms of just like, you know, building foundation and metrics, like how important it is as founders to

and honestly, what my co-founder told me when we were building our company is you know, how important the foundation is because founders do everything that nobody else wants to do when building a company. And it's a lot of things people don't want to do either. But it's like, you know, choosing the right, you know, tools to work with, choosing the right partners, the right network and then making mistakes quickly and then having you know, the mentality to work through them and find a.

You know, solution for them. So it's a lot of philosophy. Yeah, it's a lot of you know, motivation, kind of motivational piece of information, but also. Strategically you know, in terms of go to market strategies, testing, you know, AB testing, everything, keeping track, keeping a tight timeline yeah.

Not to give it away all in this episode cuz everybody has to listen to the other ones. But that's kind of the common themes. It's very much mentality, mindset, and then, , it's cool to see that a lot of businesses function the same, whether the product or the service is different. The mechanics of business are fairly.

Fairly structured. If and they change with every they, but it's like, I think about it like a microscope, you know, there's not a lot of course adjustment you do up to a certain point. Once you need to see the detail of whatever you're looking at, it's a lot of fine adjustment. And seeing the different, you know, slight layers of things.

So that's kind of how I view it now.  

Olivia: Oh. I've got a good one. Then ask me how many times I've pivoted . Oh,  

Julian: Yeah. That's a good question. Oh, that's such a good one. How many times have you pivoted ?  

Olivia: Try. Okay. One, two, three, four. Five times in the last two and a half  

Julian: years. That's not bad. I, it's funny cuz guess popular op opinion, or I guess popular belief one founder coined this termed me, it's, I think his name was Chris Klein from BoomTown.

Was it? He said product market fit is a moment in time. And so companies need a change and need to do, whether it's a big pivot or micro pivot, because that will be what the market or their customers dictating them to do. A lot of people get into the fallacy that a pivot is like an internal decision, whereas it's a decision based on the moment in time. and I thought that was that took a huge weight off my shoulder cuz was like, okay, cool. I can change my mind. That's if I need to . Yeah. Yeah.  

Olivia: And it, yeah, and it's like, at first I was like a little embarrassed to pivot and I'm like, no. It's like evolution, it's growth. It's not, yeah.  

Julian: Founders get it. Yeah. Founders get to pivot and then the, and the moment in time. Well, Olivia, I know we're close to the end of the show and it's such a fun time chatting with you and especially learning about, you know, new emerging markets like climate, technology and kind of your challenges that you're facing, but also sounds like some really good news that I think we'll all be excited about to hear in the near future.

So I'd always like to give my guests. A chance to give us your plugs at the end of the show. Where are your LinkedIns? What's your website? Where are your Twitters? Where can we find you? And also be a fan of the new launch that it'll be coming out and maybe even get involved ourselves and download and start working with the incentives that you'll be offering.

Olivia: Yeah. You can go to sustaio.com and ultimately go on to our newsletter and get signed up there if you wanna stay tuned for the new release coming down the line. And then we do have generation one of the software live today, so it's actually open and free to everyone right now. And that's at my.sustaio.com where you can go get your Sustaio score, generation one and use the platform.

So to get familiar with some of the climate actions you can take in your day life. Otherwise follow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter and yeah. We'll we will have good news news for you guys in the middle of next year.  

Julian: Amazing. Well, Olivia, I hope you enjoyed yourself and thank you so much again for joining the show.

It was such a pleasure to chat with you.

Olivia: Cool. Thank you so much.