Julian: Hi everyone. Thank you so much for joining the Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have Diego Hoter co-founder and CEO of ucrop.it. ucrop.it is a collaborative platform for farmers and companies to agree Tracey and share sustainable crop stories at a farm level in a profitable, digital, and scalable and immutable way they eliminate greenwashing and climate metrics.

Diego, thank you so much for joining the podcast. I'm so excited to chat with you. I love hearing companies that are working in the sustain. Space. It seems that there's just a lot of inefficiencies in what we're doing at a fundamental level and infrastructural level that companies like yourself, you know, are working on kind of reducing the waste and the cost and things along that nature and also the metrics and what we're receiving and seeing.

So all in all, really excited to chat with you. Tell me a little bit about what you were doing before you started. ucrop.it.

Diego: Right. First. Thank you, Julian, for inviting. Hi, Mihir. I'm excited about discussing these topics with you. And to answer your question, before I used to work for a agriculture industry for over a decade, more or less. I was in Monsanto bringing bio technologies from a market marketing regional role into the south area market by the technologies in crops. .  

Julian: Yeah. And what was that like? Especially from, you know, I think both the American and South American you know, we have different industries and how they're set up, but I'm curious because a lot of the supply from South America also influences other countries.

Tell us a little bit about the mechanics behind you know, growing crops and distributing them and what is necessary for the high production that is needed.  

Diego: Yeah. So basically 11,000 years ago, since wheat was brought into the agriculture industry as the first extensive broke crop to be produced in volume.

Right. Yeah. The world has only one need. It was to feed an increasing hunger population. Right. But yeah, that paradigm is kind of shifting as. , speak because nowadays the agricultural function not only has to feed an increase in hunger population, but also help to cool down the overall world's temperature.

And the agriculture industry is responsible for about one fourth of global greenhouse emissions. And that is happening mainly 90% of that from the sea to the harvest, right? So, yeah. Food. Food key countries such as the us, Brazil, Argentina, and the farmers within these countries of course, Europe, Africa, and Asia.

We do, we all have a key role in playing this down, right in helping ensure that farming is done in a sustainable way to reduce the carbon footprint, but also to ensure an environmental footprint as we produce crops and fiber to feed the world, right?  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And how do these countries communicate?

Is it what are the means that they use to communicate now? And how effective is that communication between, you know, the countries and the farmers and, because it seems like there's a lot of people involved in the process.  

Diego: Yeah. Well, so yes, you're right. Jane is has several actors.

You have the trader, That source crops from the farmers. You have input companies selling fertilizers and input products to those farmers. You have financier services you have machinery companies. Nowadays you have carbon entities trying to help farmers monetize. They're carbon . So overall there's a lot of players with, right, you have the elevator.

The farmers themselves, they're a collective entity. You have the farmer that owns the land, but then you have the farmers that actually rent the land. And you have the people that works for these farmers producing the crops as crops responsible at the field. They're agronomists, right? So yeah, there's a lot of people involved in the process of coming up with a relevant grain. Right. A commodity crop.  

Julian: Oh, I was gonna say I was gonna ask a question about, you know, ucrop.it. There, there's this piece about greenwashing metrics and and where I'm curious in the process of, you know, the entire farm to table , you know, I guess chain of events. What is this whole green Washington climate metrics?

Is this part of the emissions that people are omitting from their reports or, you know, I assume that what you, like what you said, there's a lot of waves that's involved in you know, the agricultural process and you have to report that. Is what's this greenwashing that you speak of?

Diego: Yeah, so basically in order to to be the time where companies, right, corporates, companies, big companies are trying to honor big and medium sums. Companies are trying to honor their sustainable farming footprint, right? They have to make sure that what happens at farm level in farming those crops is the correct way, right?

It's environmentally positive but you wouldn't get that from seeing I know a soybean or or a or a bean. When a corn tooth out of that, you won't get to see how that crop was being brought to systems, right? Because basically if you get a soybean right, that it's been farmed in non-sustainable landscape because it has been all deforested.

In order to produce that and basically applying a lot of fertilizers or a. PCI products that are way above the green threshold of appliances or basically with gel laboring involved and basically releasing a lot of carbon into the air. Right? Yeah. But with a low environmental footprint are equated to that production.

It will look exactly the same as a soybean that has been produced, taking care of these things, right, but sustainable peripheral landscape by applying no-till labor, actually reducing the level of emissions in in, when you see the crop. With childless labor verified, involved in in the production process, basically using a responsible way, fertilizers and chemicals, right, sanitary products in order to bring peace of mind to the consumers of the crops.

They will, those beans will look exactly the same. So how do you get to know which one was verified for environmentally positive impact from the other one? And that is what we actually do, right? We apply technology. that we combine from spacial satellite images along with Farm track record data in the hands of the farmers or with oracles from the interfaces they use out of John d machinery or interfaces such as farm tools such as the Field View Farm Tool and others that enable us to retrieve data from those machines.

Combine that with the satellite images and ize pictures that the growers that are entitled to legal exploited land can provide us evidence on the way they're not only using the land. We run an automated algorithm in order to understand how sustainable that landscape is in the very first place, but also to the fact to be able to qualify the sustainable practice along the crop cycle as it unfolds.

And we produce out of that what we call a forest story or a crop story, depending if that is on a forest asset or on a crop cropland production. Use of land. We create these crop stories that basically enable farmers to tell in a purified manner the sustainable story of the crop. Too many companies involved within the body chain.

Julian: Yeah. And what's the incentive for farms to adopt this technology and keep track of the story so detailed to, to the fact that they know that not only the impact, but throughout the process where that in impact can be improved. What's the incentive for these farmers?  

Diego: Well, so farmers for us, they are free users of our platform and as a customers we have these big companies. We have 25 multinational companies that goes from the trader houses to CPG companies, to banks and to input providers that are looking forward to engaging in this. With these farmers to basically agree, trace and verify these crop stories at farm level on the basis of the protocols they need to trace in order to comply with either their sustainability policies or a business objective.

For example, we have trailer houses such as Car Hill, amongst. that wants to source sustainable soybeans or sustainable corn out of a specific international, global sustainability standards in the use of land while the farmers are producing these crops. So we verify that for them. We produce a sustainable landscape report that verifies the sustainable origin for this crop that they are ultimately will source.

Out of these farmers with those crop stories, or we have fertilizer companies that wants to engage in the way farmers are playing that product, not to overdose fields to verify that they're using a responsible manner. to basically reduce the environmental impact of those fertilizers, of those crop protection products at farm level.

And all these companies will reward those farmers once they achieve these verified objectives within their crop stories and for sharing those crop stories with them. For these companies to be able to impact their brands, their products on their process with that traceable information to who were how and what these farmers have achieved, those sustainable metrics so that you can have a sense and agreement on.

Those metrics that you will basically bring into a protocol process. For example, the capital footprint cannot be challenged out of being false, for example, because you can actually trade back to whom were how and when that footprint was sequester in the first place.  

Julian: Yeah. What was, you know, you've been in agriculture for most of your career, if not all. What inspired you to. ucrop.it and kind of take, you know, this idea of tracking and really take it to another level and offer this really intelligent way to keep track of this, you know, crop and this whole process.  

Diego: That's a great question. Thanks Julian. So when I was working for Monsanto, I was in charge of, bring my technologies into the fields for companies and farmers to leverage on the power of having more.

Or better crop protection trades out of those crops. But ultimately this would require an understanding right? Between the farmers Yeah. And the companies that they engage with. For example, the trading houses and I was able to spot a gap there, right? What was good for both was not perhaps the best timing or the best objectives in order to unfold those technologies.

Because if it would increase the yield, ultimately would think that as a trader house, we ultimately recognize that as positive because they will have more grain in order to export. But that was not the case because traders think on a silo way and farmers thinks on a silo way and they do all the, there are certain incentives are meant for basically maximizing that.

Specific crop system value. And with these things it's all, with sustainability, it's more about the long term value that you are creating. So, I, but back then I thought that this would be sold by getting them into a commitment on how they could agree Pacific data that will fulfill both interests on a profitable manner, but that they can actually pursue it on a long-term basis.

Right? Yeah. And so by that time I was researching on, on, on blockchain that was around 20. , I realized that blockchain could create a decentralized way of tracing crops with enough information to sustain aspecific objectives that will feed both farmers and companies interest. And in doing so, create an immutable truth that everybody could agree on one thing that has been sold at farm level that will be able to capitalize by the company that is engaging with those farmers.

So, Then this. This was the basis of a paper I wrote in 2016, and then I kind of published 2019 and since 2019, sorry, 2019, and since 2019 we started the company in order to make this , real thing,  

Julian: right?  

Yeah. Early on, what was the, you know, some of the main challenges you faced having a new u using a new really hypothesis or thesis around tracking information for crops in particular, and then having it adopted to both farmers and and corporations.

Was there a challenge getting them on board? And how was the building process? Did you build in a. Simplistic kind of understandable model that, that they could already implement? Or did you have to onboard and have them adopt a new way of using technology? What was that process and challenges like?

Diego: So That's a good question as well. So back then, that paper looks like science fiction to everyone that we were showcasing this because it was like blockchain trade, blockchain farming, right? Which was, you have to set your mind in 2016. It was really. . Right. And no one actually knew what was blocked in about people were hearing about Bitcoin, but not about the underlying technology beneath.

And we were even applying that to the factory, to, to the country industry, which is a industry that somewhat lacks behind technology, right? So back then it was really like sign fiction, but we were able to expose that to some investor of us that were very knowledgeable and proficient in the agricultural industry.

And though they did. Grasp what the technology was about. They did grasp what the objective, what we're pursuing was about, and they were seen. the challenge of differentiated crop based on information at a massive scale that cannot be done by basically sending people a bunch of people at the farm and checking lists or checkbox on the paper and trying to give a faith and truth, certainly out of that.

Yeah. But that you have to basically digitalize that without remote already in the hands of the farmers. So, but with that technology, the blockchain, you could actually do that at a really competitive price. So when. Build the business case. We were able to gather the funds out of the, these prison investors in order to bootstrap our solution for almost two years, because we released this by the end of 2020, which was our very first m p, and we got the awareness of two companies that better than us, which was he one of the largest common companies in the America.

In the other culture back then in order to trade crops by applying crops, blockchain recorded crop stories, and since then, and it was 2020, we have in the last two years, 21 and 22, we have grown from 50,000 actors that is somewhat between 150,000 acres. Right. And a bunch of 12 farmers. We have grown into tracing 2.2 million acres of climate verified crops all across the, down from the United States, all across to Latin America South.

We're spanning from the United States, Mexico, Heina, Para Dubai, and we have operations all across those countries tracing these crops in across wheat, soybeans, cotton corn, forestry, and a bunch of others in order to provide this engagement with farmers and crop. and back in 20. By the beginning of 2021, we were able to materialize our first round right.

And engage professional pcbc investment investors from the New York from the United States and Latin America that were either anchoring sustainability or big agriculture fans. And we were able to lead around and support us with their capital until today that we are still growing.

Julian: Yeah. That's incredible. And what was it the process like kind of, distributing your technology across other countries? Was there a lot of red tape that you had to go through? Is it fairly free in terms of the relationships you were building with other companies and farmers, or what were the, I'm assuming there were, there had to been hurdles selling into other location, other.

Diego: So, as I told you, farmers for us is a free user and our real customers, the one that pay our service fee are companies that are looking forward to engage with these farmers in order to agree on specific objective to be addressed at farm level and build their crop stories that will resemble and achieve those objectives and share that information may on a peer-to-peer basis within a crypto confidential environment between those farmers and that company.

For these companies to. Product, products and process with these purified metrics, right? So once we get, we got our first contracts, we keep kept growing on this contract. Nowadays we support more than 35 multinationals on this effort. And these same companies began asking us to go to our office, right? And so in doing so, they began helping us expand our way.

And because we do have agronomists at the. Supporting farmers on each that we operate and how to digitize these crop stories in order for these farmers to receive incentives that these companies are willing to reward them on a monetary basis for sharing, but for verifying, accomplishing, and sharing these crop stories.

is that we were able to bring to the farmer a very compelling proposal, free to use, you get paid for your story now, not tomorrow, and you get to share how you, you do things on our correct panel with companies that are willing to price that for you and the value that way of farming. So, This was about changing the grower's mindset into a more sustainable mindset grower, but also in doing so, building a profitable business model for farmers and companies to be able to profit about it.

And so because of that, I think that we were able to, through our customers, reach other geographies and expand through our business model that is assisted on farm with farmers that are willing to engage in such model. Right.  

Julian: Describing more about the blockchain technology bid are, did you mint your own Coin?

Did you create your own protocol or did you use some preexisting EVM machine or EVM to, you know, create smart contracts out of eth? What were you doing exactly to yeah. Tell us a little bit more about the blockchain technology about it. Are you creating smart contracts to track everything or what is it that makes ucrop.it unique?

Diego: Well, we use blockchains for inability disability. Right? So, so, you got heard basically that we are creating the largest agricultural nft, right? Because what happens on a flood of land balances each crop season? After each crop season. So the way you farm a crop is relevant to be able from one crop season to the other one, because it can be a totally different crop and a totally different way to.

From the use of lab protect after to what practices you actually apply to that. So in applying blockchain to that and through different site chains that we use, in order to record that in public blockchains, to create amenability visibility on those specific blocks through those discussions is that we were able to produce a crop story that will be immediately recorded and centralized.

But. Have the encrypt crypto confidential level that farmers will rely on in order to be to them, be the ones to decide who, which company to share that information to. So we build this data layer on top of that. Yeah. That helps create this these disagreements through which farmers.

once a company, the corporate company, the customer of us publishes a traceability protocol in our platform. They can they get growers which are already verified for legal rights to spread land, to basically adhere to that traceability protocol. And once that happens, that creates for each company an crypto confidential blockchain space, out of which those crop storage will be shared.

But one company cannot see the other. Crop story because each of them is a crypto vision environment. But a farmer can see as many protocols are there for him to adhere. So he can basically share many crop stories with many companies for different climate purposes to trace with and earn incentives out from them.

So currently, on average, farmers are sharing five crop stories with five different companies on a single acre of land for five different purposes and earning incentive out of each crop. , but leading on a particular way with each of these companies, for those companies to be able to leverage those crop stories on their products and brands.

And that is basically the, our gravy cells using blockchain for that inability recording and the centralization on the farmer hands for providing the correct evidence on how they are doing things. that can be immediately, yeah, immediately recorded without sacrificing remote certainty so that you can become this scalable, digital and global basis.

Julian: Yeah it's amazing to hear what you are working on and how you're enabling farmers. Cuz you know, it, it was the, one of, one of the biggest things in America at least, was the advent of subsidies for farmers who were struggling, but they could have, you know, financial backing from the government to be able to produce something that was incentivized for them to do so.

And we've seen that play out and it was great at the time, but now, you know, there's a lot of immobility to change. You know, what we're what? Growing and how we're doing it in a way that it's not necessarily as advantageous as it used to be. But using this, you know, blockchain technology in a way that essentially validates how well you, your crops do and perform and your process behind it.

I think it's really tapping into a lot of what consumers want, which is, where's my stuff coming from? How was it treated during the growing process? What was involved in. Know the chemicals or I'm assuming the land and in its distribution, the climate when it was harvested. All these pieces of information that I think as, at least as me as a consumer, I wanna know because.

I, I think people are becoming more in tune to what we intake after, you know, huge industrialization, global push for feeding a large population. But the population now, I think wants more information to what, you know, we're consuming. What's the Carl Sagans story behind ucrop.it.

You, you, you added that into the notes and I'm so fascinated to hear. Yeah. And I would love for you to share that. .  

Diego: Yeah. So I told you how difficult it was for our Brazil investors to grasp the technology side of it. Yeah. So I came along with this rough P B T explaining how through blockchain farming we could solve this problem of crop traceability for impact purposes between farmers and companies within the battery chain.

I explained how this would be a trend for the next five years. That actually now looking back for how, for almost three, four, behind. We are seeing this sustainability trend kicking mainstream on all big forest and crops assets across the world. And they just didn't get it. I mean, they, blockchain what , so, you know, these so these were people that were really in agricultural business, we are talking about people that were the owners of big agricultural manage.

Operations and that were either global executives of big and culture films, and they did or were not able to grasp the concept technology. So I choose to said, okay, then Carl explaining this to you. I put this great video that Carl has on the fourth dimension in YouTube. You can actually Google.

Explaining to you the fourth dimension, but because you cannot actually understand what the fourth dimension is because we cannot see it, he does a great job of explaining how the fourth dimension should be understood by explaining the difference between the two dimensions and the third three dimensions that we actually understand because we actually can see the two dimensions, and we live in three dimensions.

I, I showcase not being to them. And I said, okay, you know what? You are living in 3D agriculture and this is all about 4D agriculture. And they went like bombastic, said, ah, we want to, we , so please yeah, make a piece of that. We do not understand it, but we get the total sense of the objective that you are following.

And yeah, we want to be a part of that. Incredible, I love has a great place in new for all  

Julian: of us. I love that. I love how the use of. Any explan, explana explanatory tool, like a video or a graph or anything used from prior experiences and it's amazing to see that you were able to take that and use it for ucrop.it.

And that had such, such a funny story.

Diego: It wasn't even regard, it wasn't even about blockchain and not, it was about the fourth dimension, right. Yeah. But it was pretty much the way it was felt back then, right? Because we didn't even know what blockchain was.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. And now it's evolved into so much more. And as the technology of blockchains evolving is the technology behind ucrop.it evolving as well?

Or how do you. You know, there's a lot of regulations, there's just a lot of impact with blockchain technology. Has that impacted you or is it less impactful because it's more used for the mechanics of the platform or the technology that, that you're building?  

Diego: So I think that the overall relations and then the scrutiny comes with the, the tokenization of crypto assets mainly.

Right. We are not actually doing that. Right. What we are actually doing is providing and understanding on. see the difference of this if you had a farm data right, stored in a public database right, which was not endorsed by a farmer with an electronic signature token that actually endorsed the way that piece of data was manufactured.

For applying a specific product with an environmental impact vision for running a low deal labor experience. Whether you sit in the seeds for accounting on how sustainable your landscape is, that you are entitled to legally exploit that, and that's not endorsed, right? It's only a data on a public database that can be manipulated and it's not traced back to.

Which was responsible for actually bringing that data in the very first place. We solve for all of that while we structure our crop story from this use of land to the crop cycles activities as their phone in order to be able to feed with that data. Climate metrics such as the carbon footprint, the developmental impact, visions on the way you responsibly apply for the license and competition product.

The responsible way that you would not impact wetlands with your fertilizers not to produce other more pollutant gases than the CO2 or the way you're taking care of by a diversity within your agricultural asset are all things that we can build out in the crop stores and get blockchain recorded with the farmers endorsement and the.

Of that realization. So in doing such a thing, we're not actually creating a crypto asset. We are recording that information in, in, in blockchain to brought up a crop story. And of course it's not fungible and it's immediately recorded to be shared between those farmers. And, but for the overall intent to reward those rules out of sharing that.

Yeah. And makes a difference out of provision, a token that will have a, whatever market value there that will ate. And I don't know that we are we didn't came from that angle. We came from the mobility angle. And in doing so, while we are doing, as we grow as a platform and as we spend through different markets in America and non-American markets, it's.

create a secure web three environment in which you can actually raise the level of transaction and incentive programs rewarding farmers about their sustainability intents, because there's a huge carbon tunnel vision nowadays based not only about carbon, right? It's about how? By how you're taking care of biodiversity.

It's about how you are farming and with an positive environmental impact of features on the way you use fertilizers and crop protection products. It's about how you treat endangered species. It's about how you use your land on a consistent basis, not to contribute to the deforestation. Or to net to broad net impacts in, in, in the moment that we are trained all to reduce that gas, that sources of greenhouse emissions.

Right? So that is our anger and that is how we are building it forward.  

Julian: Yeah. What are some of the biggest challenges that ucrop.it faces today?  

Diego: Ah, so I would say, we are growing fast. And that, that is, the timing is correct because we are having a lot of commercial activity and companies that we are, we're growing a lot of companies contracts and we're growing in farmers right?

And in engaging those together, we're growing in revenue, right? We were able to monetize roughly 1 million out of this. The previous 1, 20 21 was about $215,000, and the 2021 was about only $50,000. So we are really exponentially in terms of monetizing our crop storage with farmers and companies like, but the, I would say that our overall challenges now relies on as the world finds and organize itself in order to rewatch, sustain.

To keep our growth base and our correct funding matching that so that we can get to the sweet spot on which the, once the world has organized the framework to reward farmers based on this and as frameworks for sustainability becomes more rigid in terms of how agriculture should be produced. We are the ones being able to leverage the intent with a platform that is as intreated and scalable for farmers and companies to make their sustainability effort profitable.

Julian: Yeah. If everything goes or what's the long-term vision for you? Crop it.  

Diego: Well, we do want to become the, I would say the fabric for yeah, the fabric for global digital agriculture, right. For sustainability basis. So if we could provide that level digitization to companies and farmers that are looking to produce on a more sustainable basis, but a verified way with no brainwashing risk in the middle of the processes, we will be very successful in attempting what we wanted to do in the very first place.

So to become the global sustainability, to become how could I phrase it? The fabric of global. digital culture. Yeah. For generated purposes, for qualified sustained purposes.  

Julian: Love that. Yeah. I always like to ask this question for for my audience, but also for selfish research purposes. What is a book or books or people who have influenced you the most, whether it was early in your career or currently now?

Diego: Well, so I had the chance to meet one you know, Scott Stornetta he's the Ren known as on a world basis as the father of blockchain. He's the guy directly came with the blockchain protocol, 90 91 out of the Xerox laboratory with her. and I got to meet him out of an accelerated program for which you grew it.

We run as participants back in 21. We were accelerated by the credit structural labs blockchain stream in Toronto, Canada. And out of that program I got to meet Scott, right? That he's a fellow of that program and he was also the, or he's also the partner of UN partner. , he's are blockchain based fan in New York that ultimately lead our latest run.

Right? And so for me, it was an amazing experience to, to get to know Scott who was the very first person that minted the blockchain concept out of the of existence. He's actually mentioned six times on the SAT white paper, right? Yeah. Yeah. So he's one of the fundamental. In bringing up blockchain as we know it.

So he was very influential for me, I mean, in other positive ways. Yeah and currently he's a, he's an investor on cro, so we are very happy to have him.  

Julian: Incredible. Incredible. Did he share any pieces of information that you particularly hold onto now?  

Diego: Well, he was one of the voices or one.

Probably the most relevant boys back then in the early years of a product that says do not tokenize it, just, you know, just build on the time's time, inability case. And there's a lot of things to fix upon that and keep was right. I mean, we are pretty much building on that concept. And we are doing great.

I mean, in doing so, because if one thing companies want to avoid, Is the pain of associating climate metrics to their billion dollar brands that are not verified to whom were how and when on a firm level basis they were created and more equality because they're trying to, in real terms, honor these sustainability farming activities.

So they want to have the chance to be able to leverage those positive attributes without the risk inherited of having false claims on when they face their consumers, when they face their investors, when they first, they face the markets. And we are solving that piece for them, right. On a way that is very efficiently in doing so, because we are able to decentralize the whole effort in the farmer's camp themselves, they are the key of the, of shifting agricultural climate change challenge from conventional agricultural model into climate smarted crops, right?

So, right and. . And one thing I can say that we are different from other startups in the industry is that when others are trying to simulate or model what is happening at the farm level, By placing different assumptions and premises on a model, right? But without the farming involved in the actual things that are being traced at the farm level, they are not actually solving the green washing risk or the real impact that, that farming has for environmental metrics in doing so.

But we are, because we are tracing the current. Group of farmers and companies at farm level with grip on how conventional agriculture is shifting to these climate smart crops in a way that you can actually verify that back to the regions or an amenable manner. Yeah. So that is a very nice blockchain ization case right there.

For an, for a, for an industry that did it because agriculture is one of the major more centralized industries in the world.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, go. We could talk, I think on hours on end about sustainability and how, you know, technology is really enabling this intelligence behind those who are trying to be more sustainable and rewarding them.

And this whole incentive-based structure, that blockchain, you know, technology really offers in, in, in the essence of just the truth and trust behind you know, anything, whether it's crops or whether it's documentation. It's so exciting to learn from you, from your. But I know we're at the top of the episode.

I always want to give our founders and I guess a chance to chat about where we can find 'em, where we can support, what are your websites, what are your LinkedIns, what are your Twitters? Where can be a part of the mission that ucrop.it is moving towards?  

Diego: Yeah. So you just can, if you want to find us, you just can type www.ucrop.It and you will reach us, or you can feel free to reach me through my link.

Diego, h o t e r, Hoter, and you will find me. I am pleased to share my experience with anybody.  

Julian: Amazing. Diego, thank you so much for being on the show. I hope you enjoyed yourself and I hope we can continue this conversation. I can't, and I'm so excited to see you know, what will come of ucrop.it in the next year and how it will impact, I think, brands and sustainability overall. So thank you again for being on the show.