November 29, 2022

Episode 112: Anders Lillevik, Founder & CEO of Focal Point

Anders Lillevik is the CEO and Founder of Focal Point – a company providing an end-to-end enterprise procurement orchestration platform. For more than 20 years as a Chief Procurement Officer, Anders has helped organizations such as Fannie Mae, QBE Insurance, and Webster Bank optimize their procurement operations. In these roles, he has managed teams of 120+, including $8b annual spend and $5m annual procurement software expenditures.

As an industry veteran, Anders had a vision for procurement departments to shift from pure cost centers to strategic contributors to the top and bottom line. In 2020, he set this vision in motion and founded Focal Point to address the unmet need for a complete solution that connects the tools for every aspect of procurement orchestration across siloed data and processes. Focal Point empowers Chief Procurement Officers to move up the digital maturity curve across the entire procurement process.

Julian: Everyone, thank you so much for joining the Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have Anders Lillevik, founder and CEO of Focal Point, a company providing an end-to-end enterprise procurement orchestration platform. Anders, thank you so much for joining the show. I'm really excited to learn about your background, your process, and building, and also.

What procurement means and what it means for companies, kind of broadly speaking, but also you know, where are the pitfalls and, and that companies fall into, you know, when they think about this whole procurement process. But before we get into all that, what were you doing before you started Focal Point?

Anders: Well Julian, thanks a lot for having me on. It's pleasure to be here. Yeah, before I started the company, I did the normal, you know, route. Climbing the career ladder. So I got my mba, started in procurement in the financial services sector, and I worked my way up. So for the last 15 years I've been running large global procurement organizations.

Some of the companies that you might know are companies like Fannie Mae, Webster Bank, citizens Bank, and QB Insurance. So I've managed teams from 25 to 120 and managed corporate spends up to $12 billion per. And that's really, you know, the jumping off point before I started Focal Point.  

Julian: Amazing. And describe procurement for those we don't know in the audience.

Anders: Sure. So procurement is the acquisition of goods and services that a company uses to run their operations. So for example, Every company buys things to run the company. So I'm sitting in a hotel right now. They acquire linens and sheets and beverages and and TVs to go on the wall and cleaning services and all those things.

Those things have gone through procurement. and, and really expanding beyond that. Once you have a vendor selected, you have to get a contract in place. You have to manage that provider, you have to manage the services and the risks and so on. And that's really the remit of procurement to make sure that you are buying the goods and services your company need at an affordable price, but also while managing and the risk and delivery of the services that you need.

Julian: Yeah. Is procurement something that you've always been excited about? Is it something that, that you fell into? What was the journey into procurement? Because it's not, you know, not a, I would say a traditional career path. If we think about people going into investment banking or sales or engineering, this is something very hyper focused, I feel, in an operational capacity.

Anders: Certainly. So I. Took my MBA as a co-op student, meaning you did four months of school, four months of work, and so on. And my first placement was in a procurement organization at a large bank in Canada. They needed an analyst to build a SQL server database to house all of their transaction data. And that happened to be in procurement.

So I knew sql, I knew Qmf, and so I got hired in to do that. Within two months, they were like, yeah, so would you like to stay on and, and run this thing for us? And the rest doesn't say it was history. So I stayed in procurement and they, they paid for my mba. I mean, it was a rough wow, three and a half years doing it part-time, but, Paid the bills and and I learned a lot of stuff along the way.

So, yeah, it was completely by accident.  

Julian: Incredible. So, just to understand it a little bit more of the structure is procurement, you know, you said you were part of a procurement organization within a larger bank. Is that how most enterprise companies wants to get to a certain scale? They have a whole kind of team or individual who oversees, you know, the, the procurement.

Anders: Yeah, that's correct. So at the end of the day, right, you need a certain amount of scale before you, you have to say, all right, I need someone to manage this day to day. Yeah. So procurement expense is typically only second to HR expense. And sometimes in this day and age, procurement expense actually is larger than HR expense.

For instance, apple to my. Outsources a ton of their manufacturing to a third party manufacturer or multiple. And again, someone has to manage all of those suppliers to make sure that the stuff that parts and components gets delivered to those manufacturing site and to be assembled there. And I dares say, I do not know this for a fact, but some of these manufacturing companies that outsource manufacturing, The, you know, the, the third party expense probably dwarfs their HR expense, matter of fact.

Yeah. And typically, typically what I see is companies that have more than 50 to a hundred million in purchase expense can benefit significantly from a having somebody in procurement to do it. Right.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah, I, I think, you know, going back to I feel like when companies think about their expenses, I think we think of it in, in a negative light.

You know, like, oh, I'm spending money on these things. I'm allocating resources. But what are the benefits to companies, you know, purchasing different you know, or, or having different operational costs for, whether it's enabling team members or whether it's like you mentioned within a hotel room offering some, some level of goods and services.

What are the benefits that that. Have with, you know, purchasing other things so that they can have, you know, whether it's a full service product or you know, or whether their team's enabled to do more efficiently and, and better work. .  

Anders: Yeah. So I mean, what you can do with procurement if you know you're buying a capability that you otherwise would've to build in house.

So for example, we all have the management consulting example where I need to know something or I need to build something real quick. And you hire experts in the field that can sort of bring you up to speed. And it's the same with procurement, right? So you really can you know, Leapfrog the capability process by getting experts to do it that really specialized in something and, you know, it's so obvious, but people don't think about it very often.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. What's typical like procurement acquisition process? So, I'm, I'm, you know, reviewing a few different tools. I'm looking at purchasing it. Who's, who's the buyer? Who's, who's the overall, who approves the purchase, you know, what does that process typically look at, at an enterprise? .  

Anders: So it really depends on what you're requiring, right?

So if you're requiring something that is let's call it, Commoditized that doesn't actually have information or processing or risk. It's usually just a quick, you know, put it on your credit card or PCard and get it done fast and and furious. But then as you get up the curve of saying, right, these suppliers are gonna manage tons of information of my, of my company and my customers, or they're gonna manage the customer facing process or, You know, you can add, or, or they are in, you know, they're operating in a low cost country with different regulations.

All of a sudden the due diligence requirements become onerous. Yeah. And, and typically, you know, at that, the highest level, you start off with a set of requirements. So what is it that you need this thing or service to do? To sort of like, I need a computer, I need to be this fast. I needed to have these functions to manage this load.

And then you can sort of say, all right, now I have the requirements. Now I can see who in the marketplace can actually meet those goods or services. Find a short list of suppliers that you wanna send it to based on research that you do. And then you can send that, those, those requirements out to the suppliers and say, right, please give me a proposal for how you want to fulfill these.

Yeah. And once, once you get your responses back, then you can validate to say, all right, do they have the right requirements? Do they have the right you know, security posture? Do they have, do they have legal terms and conditions that are acceptable to us? And so on and so forth. So it's a long, drawn out process that that requires a lot of collaboration internally.

And this part of the reason why I started the company is that it's a very complex process Once you get the, to these very diff, you know, very complex buys. Yeah. It requires a lot of, a lot of collaboration, a lot of data collected from different sources and so on. And as you now you're starting to layer on additional regulatory requirements.

So for example can we acquire these goods and services from a company from a diverse background, the ownership background? Yeah. So you know, so that, that's a data source for that. Can, you know, do I pick a low emissions provider or somebody whos less wasteful provider and all of a sudden, like what used to be, right, let's just get the lowest cost to be like lowest cost.

The lowest risk mean all these other criteria and it becomes very complex. Yeah. So I, I know you asked me a very simple question, like what is typically the process? The process depends a lot on the maturity of the organization. Yeah. And. Other things they have going on. I worked for companies that didn't have much in the way of diversity or social you know, social responsibility stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you have, and then you have some companies who don't care about saving money because they're so flush with cash and they just want the process to go fast. So like, it really depends on the environment You're. And I can't name names, but you know, you could probably think of them.

Julian: What, what are some of the you know, like, I don't know if it's silos or, or I don't know if it's, if it's bottlenecks, but, you know, where, where are some of the issues with the procurement process? You know, anything that, I, I, I feel that it has a lot of collaboration. You know, there, there are certain blocks, you know, certain certain barriers or bumps in the road that delay the process in acquiring some tool or service or good.

Where are those, are they common? Are they very unique to the particular company? Where, where have you seen, I guess, the problems in, in procurement today?  

Anders: Yeah, I mean, the problem is for procurement in particular is that they are the custodians of multiple processes that they don't control. So as you know, as you come to me and say, I need, I need to buy something, I, I need to service from someone.

All right? So we can talk, we can bang out the requirements, we can go to market, and we can decide who we want to invite, all those things. Once the thing comes back, then all of a sudden you have to involve legal information, security risk, and compliance. and so on, and, and these people are not service oriented.

They are risk mitigation oriented. That is their job. And they don't care how long it takes. Now, procurement managers to process to say, okay, Mr. Customer I know you want your stuff, but it's legal and InfoSec or security. And oftentimes procurement gets blamed for taking too long, which probably is true, but.

You know, unless and until there's a certain amount of urgency on everybody's part to, to make this happen as quickly and as painless as possible, that that's gonna be a typical reaction to procurement. Procurement is, is not the sexiest thing in the world, I have to admit. , but you know, hence the reason why we built a solution is, is the whole idea that it does take 50 plus emails to just get a simple project done.

It takes 90 plus days to do a proper event. Yeah. It's typically like for the customers of procurement, it's completely a black box where they have no idea where things are. And quite honestly, That is a mistake for procurement. They really need to open up the box to show what's going on. And then, you know, information brings awareness.

Julian: Right. Yeah. Where, you know, along your journey, you're, you're working with other larger companies to manage their procurement process and Sure. You're doing a lot of different, you know, tasks with them, analytics and, and also maybe, you know, consulting and decision making. What was the inspiration to really dive into and build a product?

Lubricates this process and makes it more efficient, more effective, and, and more feasible.  

Anders: You know, it's funny, so I, I was having a cold beverage with a PI of mine one day, and he, he's another chief procurement officer for a large manufacturing company based in Florida. And he had just gone through a long selection process and he was buying a procurement system.

He was taking out the old stuff and ripping and putting in a new one. Best of class. He was very happy. Life was good and over this cold beverage, he goes, Anders, I'm so glad I I did this. Now I'm gonna finally get rid of Excel. And I looked him in the eye and I said, tell me more. Well, you know, now this, the system is gonna be here, it's gonna be great.

Everything's gonna be on system. You don't, no have to do any of this stuff. I'm like, not quite. I said, you still have to manage all your project loads, all the workflow sign offs, you know, All the collaboration, all that stuff gets done offline that's not gonna be managed in the tool. And he got beat red in the face.

He looked at me in the eye and goes, are you telling me I'm gonna spend 1.6 million a year on the system and manage all my S h I T and Excel? I'm like, yeah, man. I'm sorry. I had exactly the same epiphany when I did it. And he lost his mind. Not, not just, I mean, he believed that this was gonna solve all his problems.

That's what he sold his executives. and obviously he, he came to realize that that wasn't gonna be the case and that was a penny drop moment for me. Like, yeah. Why is it like this? Like we have all these APIs, we have all these systems, we have all these chat box, like we have all the solutions and disparate things.

Let's bring 'em all together to make a solution where you can get access all the data in one spot, ask all stakeholders in one spot, move work in and outta departments without having to send emails that then become lost into Ether. Let's give a. They window into the procurement process for users and stakeholders so they can see if everything is and you know, hence, hence forth the the reason that I started the company.

Julian: Incredible. It's, it's fascinating how many stories, you know, you hear with founders discussing, you know, having conversation around a recent acquisition of the tool, but then there's always some limitation to it or some feature that's missing to really encompass the overall solution. And so my question is, how have you, you know, what are you focusing on?

What are the solutions before that, that. You know, missed in terms of whether it's a feature or whether it's not. Having the collaboration tools and what's involved in the, in the focal point platform that you know is different from its predecessors.  

Anders: Sure. So if you acquire a procurement system today, or systems as it were, you're acquiring a bunch of vertically focused tools, you will have a solution that manages contracts, a solution that manages the RFP process, a solution that manages it, purchase order transmission, and one that manages an invoice and so on.

But hardly any of the solution if any of them focuses on the information. All of that stuff is built on and allow you to use those artifacts as part of other processes. So I will give you the example we just talked about, right? So before you send out that rfp, there's a ton of work that gets done. Like I said, you have to get your requirements vet, you have to figure out who internally should participate, which suppliers to invite the riskiness of the, like all the stuff has to be done before you can actually get to do something in procurement.

And all that stuff is done. , right? It, it's in somebody's share drive or an email inbox or a bunch of, you know, documents in, in, you know, office 360, right? And so, so that, that's, that, that was really the, you know, the reason why we, why I started the company is that that was, I was used to operating like that and we had to find a better way.

Yeah. So what we're focused on is, is, is the, the primary thing is taking all the data, the system to disparate systems and creating a data lake or a layer of data that can be sort of drawn on. So if you want to. What is the risk profile of, you know, these top 10 suppliers? Like you dig the risk data with the supplier data, with the spend data and so on.

You can sort of say, here it is, all right, what do I do with that? Well, let's see if we can mitigate some risk. Like, and then you create a project out of that, and then you collaborate on the project from beginning to end. So the whole idea of having all this data and then create artifacts and workflows, using that data across, across the process from beginning to end is really what we are, what we are building, right.

Julian: What are the challenges building? Oh yeah. What are the, no, no, no worries. What are the challenges? Building something that is kind of a data lake that you have to extract, you know, information from versus something that that communicates vertically. .  

Anders: Well, I mean, the good thing, the good thing and the bad thing about data that comes in all shapes, forms and sizes, right?

So we love these large enterprise spend tools. Cause the data comes fairly structured and we can take data that has a lot of structure to it and, and really scale that up. But then you have to realize also there are other data sources out there that we have to link in and we do the best that we can.

And we are trying to acquire a lot of capabilities by using best in class tools that are, that are in the cloud, like, you know, the Azure Cloud and, and AWS cloud to, to be able to again, scale faster than we otherwise would've if we built them themselves.  

Julian: Yeah it makes sense kind of the different tools you're gonna have to incorporate and, and build upon.

I'm sure that there's a lot of plugins, APIs, and then a layer of data that that's taken in terms of analytics that you pull from there. How's it being on the other side of the procurement process now, being that you know, you're, you're I guess, a customer you know, looking to be purchased from or a supplier.

How, how would you, how would you categorize yourself now in the procurement process, and how is it being on the other side?  

Anders: It's, It sucks. Being on other side is, is different for sure. Right. But I, I, I kinda get it cuz I've been on, on the other side of that. So, for instance, we just did a deal recently with a large pharmaceutical company and by the time the contract was negotiated and baked and we'd gone through all the security process, like it had been months and months and months, and they were like, all right, it's gonna take three weeks for the contract to sign to be signed.

How's that possible? Then I realized, oh yeah, I know why. There's probably some long drawn out process that requires 85 people with hats and ropes and cloaks and like, you know, because that, because yeah, I was there. And so you kind of like, right, this is the reason why we're here. Like, so the next people don't have to do it.

It doesn't have to take that long. And that's the problem we're trying to solve. So it's kind of profound at the same time.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You're taking all the, you're taking all the heat up front for everyone else.  

Anders: Let's hope so. Right.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so fascinating. So, you know, having this insight, and I'm always interested to chat with founders who are, you know, almost, I would say an expert in the field that they're building in, because, you know, they see things from a very internal lens.

And, and building from that point of view where, you know, it's like, what would I have needed and what would've been useful if I were to have a product like that. But do you think that point of view is limiting? And how do you kind of mitigate the you know, having kind of the blinders on in terms of just like, okay, well my experience with this, I'm gonna build something that I would've loved to use.

But you know, with different clients, I'm sure that there's different capabilities that you need to add and, and, you know, ways that you need to be a little bit more you know, building kind of more fitted to, to what they need. How do you kind of go through that process of building when, when you have that kind of experience?

Anders: So I try my best to be as focused as I can. You know, the problem that we're running into is that it's such a target rich environment. There are so many manual processes and so many disparate systems. It's kind of like boiling the ocean. And we we got our two, we got our two first customers, pre-product.

So we had a two letters of intent before we, before we wrote a single line of code and just trying to figure. What to build as sort of like the MVP or version one was, was challenging to me. Cause I, I kept like, being all over the place. Like what they were actually trying to solve was very relatively simple.

They wanted a solution that could keep track of projects and the savings they brought to the table. But I'm thinking, right, we need to integrate with, with the supplier data so they can tag suppliers to projects. We need to figure out what the spend data is so they can know what the, you know, what the opportunities are.

And, you know, my cf, my CTO was like, Andrew slow. The requirements go back to the requirements, like, this is what they want, let's go build that. It's like, yeah, you're right. And then, you know, and, and you know, what we're trying really hard now is to design things ahead of time, knowing what's gonna come. So designing is relatively cheap and relatively quick so that when someone says, I need, I need a system that does X, Y, and Z, we can say, oh yeah, okay, fine.

Well here, here's a design. It will take us X weeks to deliver this. But we're waiting for the first client to sort of try it out with, and that typically works fairly.  

Julian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Managing the you know, the, the, the how many possibilities and capabilities you wanna add versus what, you know, someone needs right now is probably a huge challenge for a lot of founders.

And then just keeping that focal point no pun intended. But in regards to, you know, you had your first first two customers, you know, with an intent. Where are you now? You know, how many customers are you working with? What, what's exciting about the partnerships you've made? You mentioned you just closed a big deal with the pharmaceutical company, which I'm sure was exciting.

And what are the different industries that you're focused on? Or is it kind of more of the size of company?  

Anders: So it's more of the size of companies and the infrastructure they have invested in. So right now mean, I, I can't really name names of customers, but we have very large hotel chain based in Las Vegas.

We have the number one job site in the country. We have some gaming companies. We have some pharma companies. We have some insurance companies. So what they all have in common is that they are large, complex and kind of archaic in, in sort of how they traditionally have dealt with these things.

That's a common threat. So, What I will say is we haven't really done much in manufacturing yet. But you know, I'm sure that will come and, and really like. What, what we have in common, especially with the large hotel resort company, is that they're extremely collaborative. They, they come to the table with great ideas.

They understand that we're building something fairly special, and that it, that is, is groundbreaking and they're willing to say, all right, here's my requirement. Let's wait, you know? For two, two sprints before we can deliver the product. They're like, oh, this is great. How about you do it this way instead of that way?

And like, it's, it's a pushing. Is there a give and take sort of thing. And it's been really, really great. We have fantastic customers. I can't, can't stress that enough. And it's much more than a. , you know, it, it's not a transactional relationship. It really is a development relationship.  

Julian: Yeah. How do you, how do you go about developing that relationship from, from a founder perspective?

You know, going through this whole customer acquisition funnel it's hard to just call, you know, connect with someone based on the problems that they have, especially with the solution that, you know, is like we'll solve every, every problem that you've had from, from the procurement process. I'm sure there's a little bit of push back there.

So what's, what's your strategy for client acquisition?  

Anders: So it's interesting. So my first like arms length customer that I acquired after, you know, the first version was built, I basically skunk work, the sales process myself, right? Fairly scrappy. So I went onto one of these sites where I could mine data.

So I pulled on cheap procurement officer data on every industry I could find. And then I sent a horrible email campaign. And you know, the title of the email campaign that I sent was Excel is not a management tool, and. The email basically described, I'm a, you know, recovering chief procurement officer. I had this idea, that's right.

I had this idea and I built this solution. Would love to show it to you. That's got me this, this very large resort customer. They're like, we have this problem too. Can we see it? And you know, a year later we were onboarding them. I mean, that's how long the process took. Right. So it is more. I had this problem.

I bet you have this problem too. But I had this problem in the finance and insurance industry. I bet you your problem is slightly different. I would love to hear about it. Yeah. Right. And the other thing too is my sales team now are made up of either former procurement practitioners or folks that have sold to procurement organizations, right.

So they understand the problem. You know when they need consultation, when they need someone to talk to the head of procurement or the best practices team, like they bring me in as a consultant or not as a consultant really, but you know, as the sounding board to say like, what works or doesn't work? What would you have done in the situation?

And we have a discussion around it, right? A lot of these companies that are selling software say, well, we are best in class. You should do what. Yeah. And we don't say that, right? I, you know, I kick people outta my office when I was in bus in procurement cuz certain companies said, well this is the best breed process cause we developed it.

Well that's not necessarily true, right? It's a process you developed and you sell it. We sort of say, well Thomas, what your process is so we can scale our solution to fit your process. And I think that's a much more salient way of selling rather than saying, you know, do what we say.  

Julian: Yeah. What are some of the biggest challenges that you face today?

Anders: The speed of the Earth's rotation really. You always feel like you're behind. And I'm, I'm a bit of a control enthusiast, so I wanna make sure things are done right and You know, it, it's, it's been challenging for me in particular because, you know, having worked in companies where a budget was never, you know, really an issue, I could, I could say, I need a million dollars extra budget cuz I'm gonna give you this much more savings and usually happen fairly fast.

So now you have to script and saved to make sure that you're efficient and scrappy. You need to make sure that your delivery is done properly. , you know, so it is just a lot of, of learning on my part from moving from a huge organization to basically being a company of 30 people now. Yeah. And, and building up a sales, marketing, delivery and support function from scratch.

None of which I've done before. So I spent a lot of time asking my VCs for help, my advisors for help, and trying to surround myself with people who have been there and done that because I don't know what I don't know. And I know that , I love that.  

Julian: Yeah. It's such a, it's such a underrated strategy that I think founders know more so, but, but maybe early founders don't, which is lean on the people who are around you, who are supporting you, who give you money, and also people in your network and community.

You know, we've all gone through some kind of similar experience, you know, or whether challenge or, or growth in, in a certain job function that wasn't necessarily our natural, you know, or, or our previous experience. But it's something that, that the community really shares. You know, compassion and empathy for if everything goes well, what's the long term vision for focal?

Anders: So right now we are developing a solution that does the workflow collaboration, which is great. We, it's, it's a, it's a rich market and we feel that we're addressing it better than anyone else out there. Where we're going with this now is because we have created these data repositories and we can.

Take any data that's tying to either customer or product or, you know, something like that and we can create strategies around it and move, move up the, you know, the value chain to sort of say, all right you know, the largest bank in the United States has 18 categories of spend, categories of spend, like management, consulting or IT or whatever, which more than a billion dollars per year.

They're currently managing that spend using Excel and. What, so imagine who, yeah, imagine you have a portfolio of investments and you're managing those 18 billion plus using Excel. It blows your mind, right? Yeah. And, and this is, this is not an investment. This is a recurring annual expense. . So we want to move into that strategy frame to say, right, here's how you mitigate the risk.

Here's how you mitigate supply chain risk. Here's how you get extract value from it. Cause what procurement tends to do is remember the process I laid out for you earlier. Like if everything, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Cool. And so the whole idea is as a contract comes up for renewal, negotiate hard, send it to rfp, but that's not always the right answer because if you're critically dependent on these suppliers and it takes, you know, two years to switch, you know, the pain of switching is probably not worth the hassle of, of, you know, extracting that money.

Right. So, you know, so then tie the, tie, the strategy that you deploy. Based on the risk criticality and the needs of the organization. So in that case scenario, long contracts, collaborate, create relationship. Yeah. Right. And really help people sort of, sort of say, based on the situation, here's what you should be doing with that with that category.

That's kind of where we're going next.  

Julian: Credible, I always like to ask this question, you know, one for selfish research, but also for my audience. What are, whether it was early in your career or currently now, what are some books or, or people who have influenced you? .  

Anders: You know what , that's an interesting question.

So being an MBA student, right? I, I, I would read everything that I could and, and I got to deploy, you know to, to sort of put that into work as I was working at the same time. So I, I'm a, I'm a Jack Welch guy. I love to read all of his old stuff. Good to great, great. I love Porter and Cotter. I think those are all great authors, but you know, now that I'm.

in, in this space. I'm reading everything I can about how to raise money. The book I just most recently read was Gap Selling by Keenan. So I'm trying to learn things that are new to me. , but my fundamentals, my business fundamentals have all come from previous bosses, right? So, if I can name names, like I had a, one of my first bosses, his name was Bruce Wittington at Bank of Montreal.

He, he taught me everything I needed to know about procurement processes was great. I worked at a large investment bank in Canada, c i b C. My boss there was Molly Pia, and she was the toughest nut I've ever met. And to this day I still admire her, her tenacity. And when I worked for Webster Bank, I had a great, great boss named Jeff Brown.

Yeah. And he was like the ultimate. Conciliary. He made peace everywhere he went, and he was highly respected. Like, and if I can, if I can balance those three people out, I think I've done a fairly good job. So, you know, you learn from good bosses and bad bosses, right? Yeah. These are three fantastic bosses I learned from.

Julian: Amazing. That's amazing to hear. And, and I know we're close to the end of the show here, and I so much appreciate not only your, your expertise and procurement and kind of shedding some light on the process and the knowledge that you have, but also I always, always get excited about technologies that are being built to, you know, you kind of, it's kind of disrupting, but it's really just like, Supporting and, and creating a, a more empowering process around something that's been been either difficult or, or is lacking in a certain area in terms of technology and, and and efficiency.

And so always excited to hear products that are, are being built around that. But last little bit, where can we support focal point? Where can we be a part of it? If I'm an enterprise customer, where can I, where can I find you? Give us your LinkedIns, your websites, your Twitters. Where can we be a part of the mission?

Anders: So the easiest way to get ahold of us That's that's our e that's our website and it's also our handle on LinkedIn. You can reach me at at lillevik. That's my handle on, on LinkedIn as well. You can always email me directly at Always excited to talk to prospects, enterprises, potential investors, and people I can help.

I love helping people cuz I believe in karma big time.  

Julian: Love that. Well, Anders, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so excited to show this my audience and I hope you enjoyed yourself as well.  

Anders: Thank you, Julian. Yeah, it's been great. Thank you so much for your time and thanks for having me.  

Julian: Of course. Yeah.

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