November 24, 2022

Episode 109: Katherine Grill, Co-founder & CEO of Neolth

Dr. Katherine Grill  is the CEO and co-founder of Neolth, a technology company that provides personalized mental health support to teens through a self-guided platform. Prior to founding Neolth, she worked at Children's National pediatric hospital conducting NIH research, co-founded a community health program for young adults, and was a university professor teaching courses in psychology and neuroscience at undergraduate and graduate levels.

Dr. Grill received a BS in Art Therapy, MA in Psychology, and a PhD in Behavioral Neuroscience. She has expertise in school-based mental health and using digital interventions with adolescents and young adults.

Dr. Grill was selected for the Forbes 30 Under 30 list in the 2022 education category and was the recipient of the Outstanding Young Alumni Award in 2022 from the Canterbury School.

Julian: Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining the Behind Company Lines podcast. Today we have Katherine Grill, co-founder and CEO of Neolth, a technology company that provides personalized mental health support to teens through a self-guided platform. Katherine, thank you so much for jumping on the show. I was looking at your background and congrats to all the accolades that you've received, and, and I know it's probably come from.

Amounts of hard work, but also focusing on a space that I think, you know, a lot of people want to solve, you know, the issue of mental health and, and accessibility, but it's difficult to, and there's a lot of intricacies to doing so, so I'm really excited to see how you've kind of pushed past those challenges, move past those barriers, but also built in, in a space that, you know, a lot of people want to affect.

But before we get into all that, what were you doing before you started Neolth?  

Katherine: Yeah, I was had a bit of a journey, tried a couple different career paths before getting into tech, but it all led me into where I am today. I actually started off. Painting. Painting was my major in college, which people find a hard time believing.

But I did it for about a year, realized pretty quickly, it wasn't for me, but I loved the expressive arts as a healing modality. So I ended up getting my bachelor's degree in what's called art therapy and really using that. As a healing modality within psychiatric care. So I worked in clinical care for a bit, loved it, but felt frustrated by the insurance restrictions and who could and couldn't afford access to care.

So ultimately went back to school to get my doctor in neuroscience. I wanted to learn how to build and create more equitable health programs and really validate them and disseminate. Scale. So I was based in Washington dc I was working at Children's National, which is a pediatric hospital there doing what's called NIH research or a large kind of government funded studies.

Did that for a little bit. I was also teaching both neuroscience and psychology at the grad and undergrad level, and ultimately used those experiences to jump into the tech field and to build.  

Julian: Incredible. I, I'm so fascinated by the the ability for art to becoming, to be such a healing you know, experience for a lot of individuals.

Being that, obviously, you know, your background in neuroscience, I have to ask, what are the mechanics in, in the, in the mind that allow. People to heal through art and even the practice of it, or the expression of it or, or the observation of it as well. Yeah, what, what's going on within us to, to help kind of heal through, you know, whether it's trauma or things that are maybe even just anxiety and depression and things that we all kind of deal with on the daily.

Katherine: Yeah, definitely. I think one of the things that we have seen in the technology field is a huge emphasis on talk therapy, traditional psychotherapy, C B T, which is cognitive behavioral therapy. So those modalities can be great, they can be very effective, but you have to understand for certain populations children and young people especially.

Older folks, if they're going through things like Alzheimer's or dementia, and people who have experienced trauma can have a really hard time talking about their feelings. And even just, I think all of us, sometimes it can be tough and scary to talk about our feelings, but especially the young kids whose brains haven't fully formed yet, or people who have undergone trauma, there's actually a certain area in the brain called broke as area, which has to do with verbalization and verbalization of memories.

And when you're undergoing a trauma, That area of the brain, we would say it's shut off or there's less activation there. So it's almost impossible to kind of talk about a trauma memory and verbalize it and remember it in that way. So these other sorts of therapies that are expressive arts therapies, you think about art, creative art itself.

Dance movement, somatics, all of these things can be really healing and just a great way for people to tap into their feelings without actually needing to have the verbal memory and talk about their feelings. So it's I think it can be a great alternative to the traditional therapy, and it's definitely less known, but it's becoming more and more popular and they are evidence based.

There's a good amount of research.  

Julian: Yeah. What, what do you, you mentioned, you know, there's this lack of access or inability to access therapies that I think are, are extremely preventative in a lot of ways. Not even, you know, after there's trauma, but even preventing any any poor experience or, or understanding maybe your own, you know, wants and beliefs in, in the system around where you act and create action through you know, what is it?

I guess, you know, causing there to be not a lot of access or an inability to access these types of therapies. Is it institutional, is it cultural? Is it societal? Is it everything above? What, what are you seeing that is the biggest barrier for just access to, to therapy in, in general, in alternative therapy as well?

Katherine: Oh gosh, off of it. I probably stigma, I would say both from historical and cultural perspective is the biggest. So if you look historically we're in the US so talking about how we have approached mental health care and treatment and how the media has portrayed mental health and mental illness.

People have been really afraid to get mental health and care and afraid of the repercussions. Whether that's, you know, financial, losing a job. We used to put people in institutions and not too long ago, right? So there's a lot of reasons that people have barriers there. And then when you get into the nuances, we could talk about this all day, but looking at specific cultures too, there are some cultures that.

More barriers when it comes to accessing mental healthcare and more stigma there. Finances are always a huge barrier. I think technology is doing a great job at making things more affordable and more accessible. But I would say those two things for sure. The, the finances and the stigma have been large barriers.

Julian: Yeah. Well, I always think about you know, learning psychology from, from my undergraduate, the DSM five, and these different categories of, you know, disorders and, and mental illnesses and, and things along that nature. But I feel, do you, do you feel like there's still this push to categorize people in certain.

Areas or is it more so that it's kind of a you know, an evolving experience on spectrum, almost like, you know, the autism spectrum, you know, is it more of a spectrum of, of, you know, different experiences that people go through that lead to maybe, you know, different mental illnesses that, that you're seeing?

Is it more categorized or is it becoming more widespread and a little bit more unified, I guess, or on a spectrum scale?  

Katherine: Yeah, I, I would say both. With a caveat that we like to categorize stuff. We use the DSM Diagnostic and Statistical Manual and really kind of label folks with a diagnosis. And the reason that that happens, honestly has to go back to insurance because once you have the diagnosis it helps with insurance and processing reasons.

Do I personally agree with that? Not really, but that's how the system works. It's kind of waiting until you're really in distress, going to a doctor, getting a diagnosis, having things processed through insurance. That's what we would call the medical model of care, really waiting until you're sick and then getting that diagnosis.

A lot of problems with it as as we know. So there's been a huge push, and Neolth is part of this into moving away from that medical model of care where we're categorizing people and just labeling them by a diagnosis into what we would call more preventative. Or a wellness model, this kind of continuum where we say, listen, we all have mental health, right?

The same way we have physical health. We're thinking about diet, nutrition, exercise, not after we've had a heart attack, but years before. Let's be thinking about mental health. Not only end up in the ER because of a crisis, but years before and on a daily basis where we can teach, especially young people about mental wellness, about good habits, and about how to manage their stress.

So, Yes, I would say the medical model is still most popular within the US and certainly within the healthcare system, but within more innovative systems within the technologies here, we're starting to see this push towards this preventative wellness model of care, which I, I really hope takes off.  

Julian: Yeah. You mentioned the word wellness and how, how would you define wellness? Because I, I feel like there's a lot of different you know, assumptions about how people would define it themselves, but how, how would you define?  

Katherine: Oh yeah. Wellness has gotten a good and a bad rep. I think from the past few years it's really been commodified.

So a lot of companies have kind of gone out there and started to work in the wellness space. And that could be anything from, you know, mindfulness and meditation, which has become really popular to, you know, OMA therapy to yoga. There have been all these things that have just started popping up and we're both in California, right?

So we, we know that and we see it all the. . You know, I think everyone should define wellness for themselves. That's one of the most important things that I think about health and wellness, especially being a neuroscientist and looking at it from this perspective of neurodiversity, which is literally, we all have differences in the brain that you could see on brain imaging that.

Would predict how we're going to respond to different treatment, whether it might be something like yoga and mindfulness or medication or social support. It's really cool when you can start to look at it on the biological level. So, you know, wellness for me, I would say has really a lot of emphasis on prevention and getting folks, getting to folks before the point of crisis.

But I would say everybody needs to, as part of their own journey, explore what wellness means to them and find solutions that really work for them.  

Julian: What would you say, tell me from an academic background and, and you know, you said you taught undergrad and, and even the postdoctoral programs. What was the information that was offered?

Because I think there's a stigma, you know, we think about education as being kind of slow to transition to new information and accepting information. Is that still the case and, and is tech and, and you know, people who are building within the, the wellness space and especially mental. Do we, do they have newer more information or is there any collaboration between the two?

Katherine: Collaboration between industry and academic partners. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. That's I think a huge area where the, the field should be moving and mm-hmm. in some instances is moving. We actually just put out this week funny that you mentioned it, a call for, for more academic partners, but we are working with folks like the University of Miami.

And the University of Iowa actually integrating our program into schools in this state, looking at things like racial and cultural background and how to tailor the program for certain groups. Looking at things like we call them RCTs, randomized controlled trials, and how to really assess is this program working and how to improve it and integrate it into the classroom so that collaboration between industry and academic partner.

Is going to be key for the health tech space because it's not just about building a company that makes a lot of money and becomes huge and you can hire a lot of employees, but it's really about building health technology that helps improve people's lives and really works. So the only way to do that is through research and is through these academic partnerships.

It. You know, five years ago wasn't really happening, but in the past couple years it's been happening more and more, and it's just very important for company leadership to prioritize that and to keep pushing for more collaboration. .  

Julian: Yeah. What is you think your biggest benefit of superpower in coming from, you know, a background where you were you were doing clinical work and you were teaching, and then you transitioned to technology and, and are working with these not only academic partners, but you know, schools and, and and a like on a customer base, like what, what do you, I, I can think of a few reasons why I think you have a superpower into this space, but what would you say is the biggest benefit coming from the background you have and leading the charge in, in mental health technology  

Katherine: yeah, it's a timely conversation because there's been a lot of press coming out around some of the drawbacks of mental health companies that have been in the news, engaging in some. Really unethical behavior. Really the term that we use here is prioritizing growth over impact. It's this growth at all cost mindset, which happens a lot in the tech industry and the startup industry.

Folks might have heard of the, you know, move fast and break things is another way. People say that. Maybe in tech, but not in healthcare, right? We're talking about people's lives. So having leadership on your team who are subject matter experts who. Have worked with patients who have learned about, you know, good clinical practice is what we call it, have taken ethical training is is real part of our training that we have to undergo.

That's huge because it's going to help kind of trickle down into company culture when we're making these decisions around, do we do the scale and the growth as quickly as possible, or do we prioritize the impact and the safety? It's something that we haven't seen enough in health tech. It's something that we certainly are doing at Neolth and that we're really proud of.

Julian: Yeah. How do you balance that out? You know, prioritizing growth and scaling versus impact?  

Katherine: Yeah. You know, , you have to, to come together as a leadership team and really discuss it, I think at the beginning of the company, at the origins of the company, and then have a commitment to stay true to that. A really important thing that has helped us is being mindful around investors and venture investors and who we're taking money from.

We've been fortunate to have fantastic investors like Telo, like head Stream, who are youth mental health focused, who are very much so impact investors and to. Our mission to align where they're okay with us saying, you know what? You're gonna. We're growing really quickly. I would say we're growing really quickly.

But you know, compared to some technology companies, they're gonna say it doesn't matter. Keep growing. Don't spend any money on, you know, research. Don't spend any money on academic partnerships. Well, we have investors who think the opposite. So for us, finding those folks, whether it's partners or investors or leadership, company leadership and employees who are mission-aligned, that's a way that we make sure that we're still really focused on the clinical impact and the health of our patient.

Julian: and tell us a little bit about how Neolth works, you know, how, how is the platform integrated in the schools or or otherwise to, to impact, you know, the, the the mental health of teens.  

Katherine: Yeah, so my background as we talked about, I used to be a therapist and work clinically in care and saw a lot of reasons why that was hard for.

For folks, especially young people, it can be really scary to talk to anyone about your feelings, especially an adult, and can be really expensive. And oftentimes it's not the first step. To care. When you look at research and you look at teens and their behavior around mental health, the first thing that they're doing is going to like Reddit, YouTube, TikTok.

They're searching online for mental health and they're watching, you know, influencers or other short videos or reading blogs about health therapy is not the first step. Not that it's not important. It can be really helpful in life saving, but it's just never gonna be the first step. So we wanted to really get together with young people and talk that through and understand what are your points to care.

How can we be that first line of defense for you and teach about mental health and education and help you get care if you need it, but also help you learn good skills to prevent a crisis. So that's how we built Neil Co-developed in partnership with a couple hundred young folks. It's really a self-guided mobile app.

It focuses on. Like I said, education, stigma, reduction, skill building. It's almost like you could think of a, a Netflix or a YouTube where we have AI that's personalizing content for these young people, whether it's videos from doctors, videos from their own peers about lived experiences, guided relaxation practices.

We help them track their progress. And we also have AI that can do crisis monitoring. So if something's going on where they're really struggling, we can in real time do care escalation to a crisis resource or to a clinician if they need it.  

Julian: Yeah, it's, it's incredible. People don't think about partnering with their, their consumer often as, as a vehicle for building.

But I, on the show, I've heard time and time again how beneficial it is to build something with your consumers because they will oftentimes guide you to exactly, you know, where your product needs to be or, or exactly where, you know, you need to grow. What, what are some of the, you know, Speaking more about the challenges of offering care with with teens what are some of the more regulatory barriers that you have that, you know, people don't necessarily consider?

We think, oh, it's a mobile app. People can download it, people can access it. But I'm sure there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes to be able to actually do so. Impactfully.  

Katherine: Yeah. This goes back to the importance of having folks on your team who understand healthcare. I used to work at Children's National, it was in dc it was right down the road from Silver Spring and really the FDA right in their headquarters, so quite familiar with working.

With them on regulation. Really right now their stance is they're regulating programs that are diagnosing specific conditions are treating conditions. So if we were to say, this is app that is treating depression. For example, there are some apps out there. Limbics is one of them that has FDA approval.

They need to go through that regulation path. But for us, with meals, we're really focused on stress management, social emotional learning. We do have some young folks who have a condition, but we would never tell them, Hey, stop treatment. Neolth is your treatment. It's really more of a complimentary tool.

So in that use case, as long as you're very clear about it you don't need to go through FDA regulation. You actually wouldn't be able to apply. There's no pathway. So for us, that helped with commercialization and really being able to get to market right away. But it's course important to keep your eye on the regulatory landscape and how things are changing because those regulations do change.

Julian: Yeah. How is the, you know, the younger generation accepting mental illness or mental illness, mental health and, and mental health practices? It that is maybe either similar or different from previous generations. We think about, I think about my parents' generation and, and my grandparents were immigrants.

You know, mental health is not necessarily talked about in the, in, you know, Mexican culture. But it's now becoming more integrated, which I love because it shows the evolution of, of caring and, and being healthy for longevity. But what are ways that you're seeing that the younger generations accepting of, of mental health? That's differ  

Katherine: they are. They are so accepting. One thing that's just a funny like nuance that we learned when I was a clinician working in the hospitals, we did a lot of times these wellness programs, we call them stress management programs, and through working with young people, the older generation liked that term because mental health is more stigmatized.

But we actually. Heard it's the opposite. They wanna like get right into it, actually talk about mental health. They don't want it to be called stress management. So that's just like a, an interesting, I think marketing learning that we had from working with the young people. But there are a lot of misconceptions I would say.

People are are thinking that young people are so open about mental health that there's no stigma. That's not true at all. There's actually recent research that came out this year that was saying there is still a lot of stigma and it's stigma towards themselves. So themselves struggling to talk about what's.

Going on with them struggling to go and get treatment, but they're very open to talk about mental health in group settings and to want to help their peers. So understanding that, again, going back to those kind of initial entry points to care if you can get them into group settings, if you can get them kind of from this altruistic mindset talking about mental health and wanting to help peers, it can become a stepping stone to being comfortable getting help for themselves.

So that's a really important nuance that we need to understand. In older generations, mental health, just in general was completely stigmatized. There's still stigma in the younger generations, but it's, it's more about them and themselves and getting care for themselves. .  

Julian: It's fascinating, the, the evolution of it and, and how that there still is stigma even, even though it's a more open conversation.

But I, you know, I'm not sure if this is right or wrong, but it seems like from, from my perspective, it's like a vulnerability. You know, it's just hard to kind of put your guard down in, in a lot of ways to either acknowledge or kid get help for something that, that you're dealing with. And, and it, it's fa I love learning the neuroscience component because, you know, the, the way to verbal.

You know, what your experience has been through states of trauma. I didn't, I I didn't even think about that as a fundamental way that that impedes of someone from actually, you know, talking about something. Thinking about from a go-to market strategy, as, as you know, Behind, Company, Lines, we work with, you know, b2b, B2C software and technology companies.

What, what is the go-to-market strategy for a, a mental health kind of self-guided platform? Is it, you know, grassroots campaigns? Is it going into schools, having ambassadors? What are ways that have been successful and, and go to market for, for your company?  

Katherine: Yeah, so I guess very high level. We, we thought about this, of course, you know, as you're starting any company, you're really doing a lot of research on this.

And importantly we brought the young kids into conversations with us to get a sense of, Hey, where do you think we should start with go to market? Where would you actually utilize Neolth of one of the things that we found, as anyone knows, if you're going direct to consumer, you need a lot of money in marketing dollars.

But also it's just an additional barrier because young people might not have credit cards or they might not have the access to pay for app directly on the app store. And it really felt like it was against our mission of increasing access to care. So we do have an app on the app store but that's not really our main channel.

We focus more on. Going through enterprise partnerships who pay for it. That way it's completely free for the young people. We wanted to start with schools because we feel very strongly, again, in reaching young people before the point of crisis and normalizing mental health. And a great way to do that is to integrate into the curriculum.

So the same way we're learning math and science on a daily basis, if we're talking about mental health from day one in school on a daily basis, you know, that stigma hopefully in the next years, in the next generation will be completely gone. So that for us was important. To really work through the schools, but as people who work in ed tech know, that's pretty hard thing to do.

Ed tech is just slower moving than a lot of other industries. So while you do the kind of traditional enterprise sales, we've done a lot on kind of grassroots, like you mentioned, community building and bottoms up growth. One of the main things that we've done that's been fantastic has been building an ambassador program.

So I believe we've had now over 400 young people who have come through the company, who have been able to learn about mental health, build a virtual community with each other really get the opportunity to discuss mental health, help us build the product, go out there and try to advocate and bring it back to their school.

So it becomes this kind of, Threefold thing where they're getting peer support and virtual community, they're helping learn about the product and how to build up the product. And then, you know, we're also going out there and getting more growth from the schools. And for us, that's been a really successful strategy that we're, we're gonna continue for sure.

Julian: my question was tell us a little bit about the, the growth, you know, how many students are using your platform or teens and, and how many schools are you working with?

And then what, what are kind of your future projections for you know, the rest of this year and also into.  

Katherine: Yeah, the growth has been fantastic. I do think it is a function of right product, right time, just given that, you know, we've spent the past couple years in a pandemic, but also really because of our work with young people and our mission, you know, focused on the impact.

That's just been. something that I think people notice. You know, that authenticity and it's, it's helps attract young people because they do care about, you know, the companies and the ethos. And that's becoming more and more important in these younger generations. Right now we're in, I think, about 330 schools in the US working across the K-12 and higher ed.

With students ages 11 plus, we just expanded into the APAC region into 2020 countries in Asia. So we're really excited about that, and that's gonna be a big new step for us. You know, seeing how we can launch internationally and how other students and other cultures really use the app as, as you know, there will be differences there.

So the growth has been there. It's, it's moving along, but it's always. An exercise in determination and persistence when you're working with the schools. We've started to do a lot of research, which has been fantastic. We recently partnered with the University of Miami and Dr. Aziza there. They are doing a study this year with 7,000 students, so it's one of the largest studies I know of, of digital mental health in the schools.

I really focused on students of color as well working in the Miami community of. And in the schools there. So just seeing again, you know, thinking about things like community, thinking about things like culture, how does that influence somebody's kind of willingness to utilize mental healthcare and how do we need to go into a community and, and tailor the program to meet those students' needs?

So those have been some of the projects that we're working on this year that I'm really excited about. .  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible, you know, the amount of focus and attention you have towards different, you know, the, the differences that people go through and you know, I think the having that focal point will, will increase the access to different communities, especially, you know, I, I come from a Mexican American community and it's, it's, you know, a lot of the, the what hinders that community from getting help is, is not feeling understood.

And based on the experience or culture, you know, of, of whomever is, is helping. So it's incredible to see that research being done. What are the biggest challenges that Neolth faces.  

Katherine: Yeah, you know, there are always challenges. For us we feel, we feel great about the product. We have fantastic research partners, like we talked about.

The ability to co-develop with the young people has been huge for us, and we continue to be leading in areas like student satisfaction and student engagement. But you know, you get to this point where after you started to build a product, you really need to get to commercialization. And I. Across the board.

Tricky for companies, especially when we're, you know, having this mindset of, okay, integrity is important to us. We wanna think about the impact and we wanna grow, but we wanna grow sustainably and we wanna grow. Well, really having a positive impact on the community. So that's been the biggest challenge for us, especially working with the venture community and trying to find investors who are mission aligned because.

You know, when you start to take on folks you take on money, that's a great thing. But when they're part of your board and they can be making decisions, if they're not mission aligned, it creates friction. So for us, that's been a challenge that we're working through. We've been fortunate, like I said, to have some really fantastic investors and yeah, just, just kind of keep chugging along and keep that commitment to, to our integrity.

It's, yeah, it's not always easy, but we do think it's the right thing to do.  

Julian: Yeah. What's if everything goes well, what's the long term vision for Neolth?  

Katherine: It has to be around , this, this normalization of mental health care. You know, so many of. The people I saw as a clinician and so many of the stories that you hear, especially during the pandemic that are heartbreaking around kids really struggling, dying by suicide.

It didn't have to get to that point, and that's the thing that's so devastating. For, for me and for the companies. It didn't have to get there. So we like to imagine this world where from day one, you're going into the school as a young person. You're talking about mental health every day. The same way you're learning about math and science or doing so in a way that works.

Thinking about culture and generational preferences for care, like, as we've talked about on this call, it's, it's not just about taking whatever's the most popular like CBT or mindfulness and kind of whitewashing the programs, but it's really thinking about all the different folks and how we can support them and understand, you know, their backgrounds.

So for us, having that in the school on a daily basis, normalizing mental health and making sure we're supporting some of our most vulnerable folks who, Have often been forgotten by mental healthcare. That's our long-term vision.  

Julian: What's what's particularly hard about your job? ?  

Katherine: Everything. What's, yeah, I guess I would say it changes over time and that's one thing that I've had to build up a kind of mental attitude around is, you.

As soon as you're starting to feel like, I got it, I'm doing the right stuff, I'm comfortable, there's a new challenge, and you're like, oh, crap, I don't know. Everything has changed. I have no idea how to do this. You know? So at first it was kind of building a team, right? And then as soon as I got them, like, yes, and then we had to build a product, I'm like, I've done this before and I can do this.

And now we're, we've done that and we feel great, but we're commercialization. So it's just like every time you start to get to that place where you're feeling comfortable and you're like, I, I understand. There's a new challenge, but that's also a really exciting part of being an entrepreneur.  

Julian: Yeah. Yeah. I, I always like to ask this question, one for selfish research, but also for my audience as well. What books or people have influenced you the most, whether it was early in your career or even today, as, as you, you know, work through the challenges of building a company?  

Katherine: Yeah, people. Can I talk about people in my personal life or are you wanting like real, like officer, whomever and other folks?

People will know. Okay. Well I'll, I'll talk about my personal life. My mom, for one person, she's really influenced me. She was a young mother growing up. I thought she was so cool because she And when she got pregnant, you know, realized she needed to make ends meet, she actually started her own cleaning services company and worked as a maid.

And like how many people do you know who are a teenager and who go out and do that. I just think she's such a, a badass for doing that and maybe where I get some of my entrepreneurial spirit. So she's somebody who. I really have a lot of admiration for. And then also my grandfather, who's somebody who I I grew up with and lived with growing up.

He was a firefighter in New York in the F D N Y and probably a big part of the reason why I have my drive for social impact and helping others. You know, growing up with somebody like that and seeing. , you know, every day, kind of how they stepped out into the world and really thought about others before themselves was something that stuck with me and something that I wanna bring to the work I'm doing at Neolth.

Julian: Well, Katherine, thank you so much for everything that, that you've, you know, covered in this show. Not only from, you know, your, your experience academically and, and but also professionally with building companies. And it's such a, it's such a beautiful weave of information and, and and activity that, that Neolth is doing and in a way that I think is extreme.

I don't, I don't know if it's generous or, or if it's got a lot of humility in it, but it just seems right, you know, focusing on impact and doing the work that's necessary to actually achieve that impact has been incredible to learn about. Last little bit. I always like to give a chance for our founders to let us know where to find them.

You know, what are your LinkedIns, your Twitters, your websites? Where can we find and support the mission that you all are heading? .  

Katherine: Yeah, so if you wanna find me personally, I would say LinkedIn. Katherine Grill. Katherine with a K grill is g r i l l. You should be able to find me. I don't have many personal social accounts, so don't try, try to look, you won't have much luck.

But LinkedIn is a place you can find me and the company is across all social. So Neolth, n e o l t h is our handle. Also, our website is new and we're on the app store as well. We have free access for anybody ages 11. So if you're wanting to learn about mental health, wanting some extra support, you're able to, to access on the app store.

Julian: Incredible. Katherine, thank you so much. I really hope you enjoyed your time and, and I can't wait to share this episode with our audience and hopefully, you know, there's more downloads that come from, come from this as well, but yeah, I, I, like I said, I hope you enjoyed your time and thank you so much for being on the show.

Katherine: Yeah, thanks for having me, Julian.

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