Julian: Hey everyone. We're here on the behind company L podcast with Dan Raju CEO of Tradier. , trade is an essential financial infrastructure fabric that powers over 250 investing platforms globally and serves some of the most active traders in the market. Dan, thank you so much for joining the show.

Julian: Really excited to dive into your background, , what trade got going on in the market and, and where you're leading to and, and all the, all the fun stuff. But before I jump into all. Would love to learn. What were you doing before you started Tradier?

Dan: no, I mean, , thanks for, thanks for having me on the show, Julian. I really appreciate it. See, I've been a seal entrepreneur all my life. You know, I, I started my career, , I have a bachelor's in chemical engineering and a master's in computer science right out of college. You know, I have maybe less than a year after college.

Dan: I, I thought that there was a problem that's calling me to solve that problem was, was, , and it's only I had to solve. I'm just kidding. So. So, you know, I, I fundamentally felt like there is there that, that, you know, at that point of time, you know, availability of services was the key mm-hmm . And so we were able to build a system that kept you know, open source servers available all the time.

Dan: And it's called high services, build a platform on top of that, sold it. And that was my first taste of success. I mean, that that's in, at that point in time, I was like, Five years old. I thought, I thought I had made it to the big league, the limited, the limited amount of money I made, but now, you know, that's, and after that, you know, I went back to the enterprise side you know, it's, you know, my career grew, I was the CIO for a couple of large billion dollar firms.

Dan: Right. But, but by late 2000 eight, you know, that bug once again, caught up with me. Yeah. And I found my way into. , a great team mm-hmm that, , who were, who had the right to venture backing, and also the, the right product market fit. And so we, and that, that company, which was called trade king at that time.

Dan: So I worked with them. I mean, it's ally invest right now. Mm-hmm , what is a part of the, of ally bank right now? So then, then, you know, then that was the background. So I come from. As parents entrepreneurs, me, entrepreneur you know, having done one startup learn, learn my lessons in the, in between. I did another startup.

Dan: Worked on the enterprise side, felt like, but the calling to basically solve a larger problem, always exists. And then eventually it led me to Tradier and, and I'm so glad we have, we have come to that scale today. So that's my journey. I 

Julian: love that. I love that. I love the, the, the bug. Cuz I think a lot of, you know, founders, , we feel this.

Julian: This internal drive to, you know, I don't know if it's find problems or create them ourselves to solve, but it's something that's that drives you to pursue something that that is either a few of, of individuals are pursuing or you feel that no one is. And, and you are the person to to do so who's influenced you in, in, in terms, you said your parents were entrepreneurs yeah.

Julian: Who, who else has kind of influenced you and, and created that bug? Or what do you think that was always internally in you and leading you into that direction? No, I 

Dan: mean, see, my parents were born and brought up in India. Right. And so, you know, they came, they came through an era where, you know, you were having a job itself was, was, was the of success.

Dan: Yeah. , For from a, in a poverty driven poverty driven country. So, you know, dad always believed that, you know, worked his life, but, but much later in his career, he actually started trying to build companies and build, , and you know, and tasted success. But he was already at the end of that career. I mean, life had caught up with him.

Dan: And so. You know, one of the stuff that he always told me was, you know, start early and fail early and to do you don't have to become an entrepreneur at the age of 60, like I did. And so that stuck on to me and that, that, that idea he leads, , and blesses you to basically go ahead and find problems to solve.

Dan: And in most cases, The problem comes crawling at you, right? I mean, it feels like you, it needs the solution and then you eventually think about it, think about it, think about it. And then you actually don't know that you're working on it, but you already start working on it. And so halfway to the process, it really comes down to the trigger really is when you, when you leave your.

Dan: Main source of income right now and jump onto it. But actually in most cases, entrepreneurs like us have been working on it for years before we actually call it a company. So yeah. Yeah. 

Julian: One, one, , one founder. Actually my co-founder mentioned to me that at, at some point it, it just, it, it doesn't make any sense other than to work on that project.

Julian: You you've invested so much time. It's built so much momentum. And then it's like, okay, it's a no brainer for me to now invest. If I really care for the success of what I'm working on. Do you feel like that's kind of, 

Dan: yeah, no. Yeah. And I, I don't think sometimes people misunderstand it. Right. I think sometimes people misunderstand entrepreneurship as taking a risk.

Dan: Right. And because they look at entrepreneurship through the lens of. Risk. Right. Right. Entrepreneurs just don't think don't behave. Don't understand. Don't consume. Don't work that way. I mean, for us, we have solved the risk problem. It looks, so it looks like a hundred percent shot. So we are not thinking in terms of risk, we are thinking about, you know, we are thinking about, do I have everything to get to work rather than, , rather than am I taking a risk that personal risk equation doesn't and what actually a funny, funny.

Dan: And it it's kind of odd, but actually I, I read it somewhere. You know, the definition of entrepreneurship is wanting to find your. At places interesting where you have a different set of choices than anybody else, right? Yeah. And so that's, it's a very, very fascinating definition of entrepreneurship because the, you, you, you, you, you make decisions that put you in corners that you have no other option.

Dan: And you have no one else, but you to you to work yourself out of that. So it's kind of fascinating. Yeah. That's, that's my career. And, , it's it's and you know, now you can look back considering how large straight year has grown today. You know, it's, it's much, much different today to look at it, but that point in time it was, it was a hustle and an idea.

Dan: And a force 

Julian: behind it. That's all. Yeah, no, I love that definition. I think that's exactly right. It's it's the, the ability to have more choices or see more choices by taking these, these initial steps, you know, it's there, there's a famous quote by Martin Luther king Jr. It's, you know, you don't have to see the whole staircase to take the first step.

Julian: Somebody bestowed that quote on me and it really kind of exemplifies the kind of mindset of. It's kind of unforeseen you, you have to take the step to initiate, you know, your journey. But it kind of helps you focus on those steps as tho that's the activity you should be focused on. Not, not the long term success, the choices, the, the movement.

Julian: But tell me a little bit about what made you, what inspired you to start shady or you had some success early on in your career. You worked for some enterprise companies, you find yourself in a few other startups, and now you're. What inspired the idea and what inspired this current project that you're working on?

Dan: So I come from a technology background, right? Obviously some technical have an engineering background of a master in computer science. So you tend to look at the world through the lens of your abilities. Mm-hmm right. So that's, that's how humans think about it and eventually find like-minded people and you go after problems.

Dan: But see, at the end of the day, what we had seen. in, in, in the financial services, but it pertained to retail investors like you and me, right? People like us who work hard, take our money, put it into a brokerage account or some kind of an investment account, spend all our intellectual capital or ideas and try to do something with it.

Dan: Right. And so that. That self record investor. And today, you know, over the last couple of years, as you know, that that market segment has grown by almost 30%. Yeah. That retail customer was, was, was basically being served by these large legacy, vertical brokerage firms. Right. And, you know, they're just being so large brokerage forms.

Dan: And I, I personally felt like. They were never giving people the choices that they deserve, particularly people who are more actively engaged. So if you think the folks, if you think about people who engage in the market, there are people who, who have a little bit of money and, and basically go ahead and, and trade a little bit.

Dan: Mm-hmm right. And there were companies, there were companies trying to take care of them, the Robin hoods and, and, and all these forms were taking care of them now. So. The, the pitch to that audience was, was not always the right pitch, but still there were companies trying to solve that problem for them.

Dan: But what I was trying to solve was the fact, the guys who were in the market, people who are slightly older, people who are 35, 40 years old or later, Basically have put a lot of money and we're just getting, I hate to say this, but getting ripped by the brokerage firms purely for, for offering them one size fits all solutions and not, not basically giving them the choices they deserve.

Dan: And I had seen. A few firms, basically trying to do that. In other segments, I'd seen firms like Stripe were doing that in the merchant payment side. And some firms like Twilio were doing for the telecommunication side where these firms were taking some extremely legacy burden, some fabrics in the market and kind of just opening it up for everyone to use without having to deal with regulation and infrastructure.

Dan: And so that prompted us to think about financial services to a point where. It is just not the large companies that can offer financial products, somebody like a Dan or a, or a Julian should be able to offer it without having to, without having to go through the compliance risk access you know, infrastructure or everything that wall street stops you from coming.

Dan: Yeah. And so that was the idea that let's, let's build that infrastructure once and one last time, but UN so that's what the unbundling of financial services. So we, we build the. In 20 in, in the 20 13, 20 14 timeframe spent, spent a lot of time and energy up. We put together some of the best people we thought who could accomplish this.

Dan: And we took that burdensome, , financial services fabric, and we exposed it to everybody today. You know, we have over 300 companies that use it. I mean, we, we, we process billions and billions of trans, , dollars worth of transactions every week. Yeah. , we are most widely used infrastructure API in the market.

Dan: , we do you making billions of calls every day and, and, and, you know, but what's fascinating is the fact that you know, we have changed that active trading space in the sense that the traditional, you know, You know, TD think or swim kind of companies you know, the traditional traditional, you know, Schwab and alies and all offering vertical products and these guys clamoring big, big, huge fees, huge commissions.

Dan: Yeah. Versus now we are letting entrepreneurs build the last mile. We've got hundreds of these companies who are offering better products than the traditional brokers. Yeah. And people are paying much less and that's the story of trades. 

Julian: I love that. And so the companies you're working with are they offering the, their internal employees kind of more options?

Julian: Are they, are they like, like a Robin hood who's offering a user base accessibility to these. Where does Tradier kind of impact businesses and, and how are businesses using Tradier to offer kind of better services, better packages and more accessibility to different types of, you know, funds and, and trading options?

Dan: No, we solve a very simple use case, but it, but it solves so many times it out and you'd, we, it at scale at the end of the day, think of a simple use case. And that is, let's say, Julian, basically. Thanks. Of the market a certain way and has got a strategy that, of how to invest in the past. You could not share that idea.

Dan: Why? Because in order to, in order to share that idea, you needed to basically go ahead and build a trading platform and let other people use it. . And so now Julian could launch Julian trades tomorrow. It could be a simple case that, you know, Julian is writing a blog and talking about all the companies they should invest.

Dan: You can click from that blog and trade. It could be Julian is texting his friends about stock ideas and you can click on your iPhone and trade, or it could be children's building the most advanced training platforms, you know? So the, the whole idea that you take the act of training. And bring it through APIs to where people create those ideas, rather than asking all of them to open.

Dan: Brokerage accounts and use one app or 1, 1, 1 legacy front end is what the difference is. So the, what we have done is we are letting anybody and everybody build platforms that are alternative to the traditional large banks and brokerage folks. So that's the key. We're just letting everyone offer the services and bundle it up in a way that's closer to what customers want versus.

Dan: The one size fits all from the large brokers. I mean, we are giving some of the largest brokerage firms right now, a run for their. . I mean, that's, that's the heart of it when we, so a lot of people don't understand that. Right. You know, it's very sexy these days to talk about you and the young millennial investor.

Dan: Yeah. Who's got $50 in his or $200 in his account and is going after the biggest wall street banks. But the reality Julian, what not, not, when we talk about is they still add up to less. Then 10% of the volume, that's it right after all the noise that, that, that we talk about making the, the millennial investor is creating and it's doing some amazing things.

Dan: It's still 10% of the market, maybe 15% on a good day. Yeah. And so we basically are trying to basically, you know, change the way the active traders think. And we are trying to get trading into where those ideas are created versus. Funneling these herds into a 

Julian: traditional broker. Yeah, no, it, it sounds like the speed and, and accessibility has created such an environment that it is disrupting a lot of the legacy technology.

Julian: And I've heard this, this piece, especially within the financial sector of, of this legacy technology needing disruption. One thing that really fascinated me though, is, is trade is also in crypto. And, and so I would love to hear more about what you've learned about, you know, crypto and, and how it.

Julian: What what's been, what's been the relationship between old, , financial technology, new crypto technology. What have you learned along the way what's new? What's, what's different about it. And what's similar.

Dan: See, I know right these days you know, there's what describes the crypto market today is one sentence and that. It's not the game. It's the players who have actually hurt that space. Right. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm crypto is a viable asset. There is tremendous retail demand for crypto. Crypto is not going away.

Dan: Yeah. Okay. And we ran a poll recently to a thousand of our best traders and almost 700 said they would, they're still active in crypto. Right. So. Or they would invest more than what they'd ever did on the crypto stack. So I think so, you know, so what we have taken was a totally different perspective to crypto.

Dan: We have, we are, we are right now working on a small, private PLA beta platform and we are releasing it lately in a few months to the public, but we have taken a very unique approach to crypto mm-hmm . And the three words that describe trad are do the right thing. Every. Don't offer retail customers deals that we cannot sustain.

Dan: And lastly, and most importantly is be transparent. Mm-hmm right. And so we come at it. We are still big believers in the crypto stack, but we are gonna come, but we are coming at it through a very, very mature perspective. Mm-hmm and that is offer a platform that can, that the unit economics can sustain forever.

Dan: Follow the regulation, keep it inside the compliance stack, treat it just like it's a security. Yeah. Let's not experiment like other folks have done. And they all have heard that's my comment about, it's not the game. It's the players that cause the issue more recently. So we just don't want, he will stay in the middle, do the right thing.

Dan: And lastly, and most importantly, which, which is absolutely is, is transparency in the sense. We, we are going to keep it simple, be transparent and most important. So we, our idea is to be basically be a, a responsible crypto fabric that is distributing crypto through hundreds of platforms. When we offer crypto, it's not like one app is offering crypto.

Dan: Right, right, right. It's not like, you know, Robert is offering crypto or some other platform is offering crypto. Then we, as a fabrics that save are offering crypto. hundreds of companies will offer that product because of the platforms they're connected to. So we have, we are a multi tenant, multi mass distribution marketplace, right?

Dan: Yeah. And so, so we, from the, from the sheer size, we have an amazing response. We have a much. What I call is respo larger responsibility and more importantly, that the industry needs to behave responsibly. And I, I think we want to be that responsible party who are actually going to do something super unique.

Dan: Yeah. We are basically linking their crypto trading to their brokerage account. The cash in the brokerage account is still gonna be protected by the regular S I C. And all the insurances you get from traditional regulated stack. And we treat it like a regulated stack and be ahead of everyone. So that's what we're trying to do.

Dan: I, I think it's, I think it's, it's fresh, it's different. And we will never, we will never make promises. We can't keep pertains to discounts and we are not going to be doing offering you. Interest rates on, on crypto assets and, and crazy stuff like that. You just never 

do 

Julian: that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I love, I love how you're taking it from a mature perspective, learning so much and, and doing so much in kind of traditional trading and giving, offering that accessibility, but it's almost like.

Julian: You know, creating a, a safe kind of structured environment to the volatility of crypto, which, you know, we all hear stories and the different use cases for the technologies is all, it is kinda like the wild wild west right now. But tell me a little bit about, you know, the traction with trade now.

Julian: You're, you're, you're very mature company. You're working with a bunch of partners. You're disrupting the space with traditional brokerage. I would love to hear more about, you know, the company size, what you, what you've raised and where your revenue is at. And you know, what the growth has looked like in the last, you know, few years.

Julian: Yeah. So let me try 

Dan: to answer the main questions you asked, right. Is basically you know, the metrics are the size where we are right now. Number one. And number two is basically, you know, what have we raised and how we, how have we got to this point? and lastly, and most importantly, is there any uniqueness that we have created that could help other entrepreneurs think this through mm-hmm so from that perspective, right?

Dan: So see today Tradier we are one of the largest, one of the larger options brokers in the country. Right. And we do a big, a few percentage points of the total market. As you, as you think it'll be basically a sizeable. And you know, and, you know, we, we have gotten over 290 companies connected to us on a GI.

Dan: I mean, literally it, our, our clients include some of the largest financial black farms in the market to white Combinator companies who, , who are trying something new. Right. So you, you tend to, you tend to and we, we kind of wanted to have the democratic view where we basically are offering the same platform, the same price, too, the same.

Dan: Across our entire stack. So super adoption super success, high sticky relationship. And we work every morning to basically say, we'll always do the right thing by these folks. Number one. And you know, I coming back to what we have done and what we have raised to, we took a very unique approach to the fundraising thing.

Dan: So one of the biggest, I'm not a first time entrepreneur, right? For me, raising money, raising money. Is, I've never confused that to success. Yeah. I mean, there's a famous sort of, there's a famous entrepreneur who basically said, Hey, why do you think, why do you think your business model will be successful?

Dan: And his answer was the venture fund thought though. Right. They thought it was, and that company doesn't exist today. Right. And then not. And so what we did was we, we took a very measured price cut once. Right. We are all, we, we, we, we raised, we, we raised less than 20 million, right? Yeah. Kept it very simple.

Dan: You know, all measured twice. Cut once kept the company lean to a point where we basically knew the model was working. Yeah. Right. And kept it, kept it profitable all the way from, as, from as early as we can. Yeah. Right. Never got into this fascination. Never misunderstood. the fact that raising capital is not success.

Dan: Right. And now I, I knew the difference between what is raising capital and what is success. Yeah. The, the day you can, them both, right? You, you, you get lost in this. I hate to call this is this. I basically call this New York west coast tech crunch hype about raising money. Right? It's all venture. It is. It is all venture fueled.

Dan: It is fueled. It is fueled as though a few, a few venture funds who basical. Have a positive idea and doors are putting their money in it. And then that is broadcast through all this ecosystem and is considered to be success. And most of these firms who, who basically have raised that large amount of capital today in a slower Barrish market, they all are struggling to put their head out.

Dan: So we on the Tradier side always stayed profitable, went after the right customer base. Right? Yeah. And we have grown incrementally and we have grown before the. We have grown during the pandemic and we, and we are grow. We are growing after the pandemic and the last three months have been one of the highest revenue and highest volume generation months the company has ever done when the entire financial markets is, is having a bearish market to it.

Dan: So the, the lesson that I would say, the lesson that I, the lesson that I would, if there's something that I could be of value for others, , from what I'm, from what I've learned, it is two things, right. Don't ever misunderstand. Capital raised to, to cap, to company success. Mm-hmm number one. Number two is measure twice cut once.

Dan: And I say this to entrepreneurs because it is kind of entry, entrepreneurial to basically say you have to measure twice in cut once because the whole, we there's over ization of basically, you know, you know, running by the running by the city of pants, the city of your pants. Right. So. Yeah. So I think there is over dramatization.

Dan: It does not need to be. Yeah. Right. And lastly, and most importantly is I, I tell, tell folks is, you know, at the end of the day, spend time with your customer and you'll eventually figure out what, what what's right to be there. Don't tell the customer what you're offering. Yeah. Ask the customer, what he needs in the offering.

Dan: And that difference has created that team where we today have a very customer focused team. We have built some of the most easily adopted tech and we are doing right by it. I mean, we, we costly hundreds and hundreds of millions, of dollars of customer assets with us. And they all trade on a daily basis.

Dan: And, you know, and we've, we, we have been a responsible company. And so the, I want to talk about startup. Is not from a big storytelling perspective, but are we being responsible participants in the society? That's I 

Julian: love that. I love that. I, I think, you know, the way you view funding is exactly right. A lot of stories, like you say, have this, have this fantasy of, of raising money and then kind of figuring it out, kind of fake it till you make it strategy where.

Julian: There's so many companies that build a profitable model and go through so many forms of iteration to develop, you know, a sound product and then maybe need, maybe need that funding to then take and accelerate to the next step. But they have such a structured foundation. And it's like, you know, it's like taking off a rocket, right?

Julian: You've gotta build a platform, the foundation, and then the rocket can take off. Because without the foundation, then you're not in outer space. You're not even in orbit, you're not even off the launchpad. So yeah, definitely, definitely resonate with, with that message with, with Tradier and, and with what you're, you're moving to in the next, you know, version of the product, or as you continue to, you know, , get more users and, and work with more companies, what are some of the risks that you're facing?

Dan: A statement. We, we, we have grown from a simple API that that was that that made a difference, , for everybody who wanted to offer and serve the retail market to becoming, , a destination to now, we are a marketplace where you have got on one side, you have. Companies and, and, and entrepreneurs who want to build product.

Dan: And another idea got customers who want to consume those, that product. And we are the enabling. So a big part of what we have learned over the years is how do you actually play a role in a, in a, in a company. or in, in a, as a company, in a flow where your customer, your customer platforms are, your are your product.

Dan: And, and we have done that through a responsible way of enabling that marketplace. The, the, the biggest risk that we carry, the biggest risk that we carry. And, and, and I think most, most companies who are in this growth stage, like we, that like we do is the risk that we carry is the fact that are we looking at the right metric that defines our success?

Dan: right. Yeah. Are we looking at the right metric that defines our success? The number one mistake that, and I myself have might have made in the early first is, is we tend to basically, we, we tend to basically define our success in terms of metrics that people understand, but not in terms of metrics that matter mm-hmm right.

Dan: For example, I'll give you a simple example, right? Here's a great example. I mean, At the end of the day, you know, a lot of financial services firms and brokerage firms claim, I've got 10 million accounts, 15 million accounts to whatever. It's like, whatever millions of accounts nobody has ever asked a question to them is how many of them are funded.

Dan: Yeah. How many of them actually have money in it? Right. Otherwise it's just, otherwise it's, it's a little more than an email address. Right. Right. And so now you, so, so, and so is that a right metric is the number of accounts, for example, a better. A better metric is how much trading activity is being created from that means that we are really enabling that many engagements to the market.

Dan: So for, for example, you know, that, that kind of a thought process has led us to focus on the right market, right. Is where people are hungry for that kind of a product. So, and you know, so sometimes yeah, the lesson that, the risk that I think trader carries as we are growing at this hyperscale, right. We're growing at the hyperscale, we are.

Dan: A lot of people, you know, we are, we are adding platforms, you know, we are on TV all the time and we are getting our word out there. It's kind of exciting, but are we, are we basically focusing on the right metric are, is from me all the way to the, to the person who's picking up the phone when someone calls and says, hello.

Dan: Yeah. Are we all working on the same metric? Number one? Yeah. And number two, is, are we working on a metric that really matters? Yeah. How do you define those?

Dan: I mean, it's very simple. Yeah. It's, it's very simple. And that is it. It, if you basically say my business has to be closest to the customer, right. Ask the customer what he wants and he'll give you the metric. Yeah. It's very simple in our, in our business. It is very, very simple. For example, we, the metric that really matters to us that really matters to it.

Dan: Us is. Trading volumes matter to us. That means the, the, the active investor toward platforms basically is, is using us as a reliable fabric to, to interact with the capital markets. And, and so that's for us, if that's a better number for us than to say, you know, I've got like, 5 million brokerage accounts.

Dan: Wow. Why does it matter? I mean, you know, Julian, how many brokerage accounts do you have? I don't even 

Julian: three, two, something like that. As 

many 

Dan: as so, so doesn't really matters. Yeah. So actually the key would be to always deal with the value of creating for the customer and anything, any metric that drives that value is all that really matters.

Dan: The rest are all. If you hit that metric, the rest will all come along. Trust me. I love that. I 

Julian: love that. What's the long term vision for Tradier. 

Dan: The vision for Tradier is very simple. See, any business comes a market segment in its unique way. Any successful business then finds, finds. the mouse trap that actually goes ahead and gets it to critical mass for us, the co the, the idea and the, our adoption.

Dan: And we came to critical mass through a mass distribution of brokerage capabilities. Right. That's where we are today. So, but once you actually get to that size right now, we have come to a point where we are going to grow that network that we have got. So we, as you know, we just, the idea is to now offer every other investing product.

Dan: Yeah. As you probably know, we just spoke about crypto. We'll be offering futures, right. We had just, we, we recently, we recently added 165 countries that you can do exactly. And build platforms on top of trade. Right. So we just did that. Yeah. The whole idea that the focus on, on trade at this point of time is how do you continue to put gas into the, into the vehicle and press the pedal while still being, while sticking to the core values and the core metrics that we want to work towards and do it in a responsible way.

Dan: And, and since we have built that platform right now, it's all. Product enhancements and products that actually support every kind of info, every kind of investment that customers or our platforms want to enable. I 

Julian: love that, man. I, I I'm, I'm so excited to see the adaptation of Tradier, you know, across countries, across different platforms and giving more accessibility and, and especially to individuals who, you know, have the.

Julian: Don't want to go through all the red tape and the funneling, and really just want access and, and, , usability of, of their, their their, their funds and, and building them, investing them and growing them. I'd love to ask this bonus question, especially from serial entrepreneurs, you know, what books or people have influenced you the most?

Dan: I mean, there are two people who have basically influenced me the most right. I mean, I mean, my dad, obviously our sake has been a tremendous influence on me. Right. Tremendous influence on me of how do you stay grounded and how do you basically execute? Right? Mm-hmm so, and. And the other person that, that, that has, you know, made a difference in the way I think, and the way I act and the way I behave is, is, is basically is, is, and, and I learn quite a bit from is, is, is my first boss.

Dan: Yeah. I used to have a boss, you know, call he's a great gentle. And he's a very private person, so I'm just gonna hold off on his name a little bit. The first gentleman I worked for, right. I hated him when I worked for him because I mean, he used to basically tell me, you don't know what you're doing.

Dan: Yeah. You think you're doing, but you just don't know. And he would tell me every time to do one thing. And that is to basically work hard and always do the right thing. And, and, and, you know, and, and, and, and, and let, let's not, your don't have a chip on your shoulder and, and, and, and basically do the right thing for everyone else.

Dan: And, you know, at that age for short of college, I, whatever, come on. And I mean, yeah, but I think he had an influence on me because after that, every time I did something new, I somehow tried to make sure that I'm being responsible. Yeah. And so that, so for me, those two gentlemen, you know, my dad and the first boss I worked for.

Dan: Both of whom. Right. You know, at that point in time were, were, were the target of my absolute dis disgusted. Yeah. But, you know, I learned so much from them, so 

Julian: yeah. Yeah, no, it's, it's awesome. What you learned from people early on in your career and how those messages carry on and you kind of carry their successful habits.

Julian: And, and for myself, it was one of my first bosses. And then one of my first founders that I worked. And it's just those, those habits that they built, just, I felt like sped up my learning and my process. But Dan, thank you so much for, for being on the show last little bit. I always like to ask is where can we find you?

Julian: Where can we support Tradier? And, and you as a founder, here's the last final plug, you know, give us your Twitter, your LinkedIns, your socials. Where can we support..

Dan: It's Tradier. I mean, you, you can find us on Twitter, , of a Facebook LinkedIn, the website, the app stores, we all over the place. I mean, the best way to get hold of trade is to just go to our app or the website at ww.tradier.com and call us and we'll pick up the phone and we'll we are, we still are old style in that fashion.

Dan: We'll pick up the phone and someone will talk to you and he'll, and I'm sure you'll find him exciting. So we just have that. So that's the best, , that's him or her exciting. So that's probably. The best way to get, hold, get hold of us. But you know, I mean, you can always, you can also, you can always reach me directly through all my social platforms.

Dan: I mean, I, I go, the first name is Dan and my last name is Raju. If you just search me, you can find my handles and you can get hold of I'm out there. I, I evangelize and I'm out there and hopefully I can answer the questions people might have. And hopefully that can be helpful.

Julian: I love that, Dan. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.

Julian: We've learned so much. I wish we had, you know, so many more hours to discuss, but I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the behind company lines. Hmm. 

Dan: Thanks, Julian. Thanks for a great show. I regularly enjoyed the conversation. 

Julian: Love it. Thanks, till next time.

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